My Next Boat Project

oldgrowth · Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:49 am Post subject: My Next Boat Project

I have been following Bill of Beer:Thirty and his hull extension (last two pages in his album). It has inspired me to look at something similar for my 16’ Cruiser. I am always overloaded and crowded for space so I have decided to start the planning and design stage for a 19” hull extension for my boat.

I have never done anything like this before, but I think I can do it with my brothers help, except for the fiberglass work. I will just duplicate the 19 inches of the stern and add it on, then convert the existing engine well into storage. It should add 275+ pounds of capacity to my boat and free up what little deck space I have. I have done some line drawings of the boat with the 19” extension. They are in my Boat Projects Album (last picture in the album).

I am anxious to get started. However I will wait until next winter. Don’t want to miss months of boating season with this project.

lloyds · Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:33 am Post subject:

Dave, I sent you a PM asking how you got the bulkhead free but didn't get a reply. Maybe the electrons failed. I have had the brackets off and have checked out the calking. But can't seem to get the bulkhead to come loose, any suggestions?

Billy · Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject:

Dave,
Great idea! I bet you're gonna love it. The guy I took my boat to, routinely does hull extensions and he starts by using form wax on the boat, then glassing right over the aft 2-3 feet of the boat. When cured he then breaks that glass free and slides the whole thing back the desired distance which becomes his mold. He then builds a wooden framework around the mold to support it in the right place and to keep it ridgid while he builds it up on the inside. Wish now I had taken some pictures for you. Hope this helps.

Bill

Norm S · Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:13 pm Post subject:

Dave....Great drawings. Looks just like my 18. When you're done you will displace Byrdman from having the last 18 built. If we all manage to put our plans to finished fiberglass it will be interesting to see how they all work. 3 different approaches to the same end. Your idea should be the most performance neutral of the bunch since all you are doing is making the entire hull longer. Like you I don't want to miss the season working on my boat but I think I can do much of the fabrication for mine off of the boat. Hopefully will have it done by fall if I keep after it. Also thanks for posting the drawing of your homemade "permatrim". Now that I know what size of material I need I can go scrounging this week.
Norm

oldgrowth · Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:13 pm Post subject:

lloyd,
I didn’t get the PM from you. Don’t know what happened to it.

The only place my bulkhead was calked was on top. Sides and bottom were not calked. To get it out after removing the four brackets, I took a very thin putty knife and cut the calking at the top (I sharpened the putty knife). A sharp thin knife may also work. I was able to pull the bottom out slightly at the same time and that helped. After the bulkhead was removed I used a knife to cut the remainder of the calking off.

All 5 gallon buckets are not equal. The bucket you use should not be more than 12” in diameter and 14” high. If it is, you will loose v-berth space and the drain will be getting low which will cause your through hull drain to be near or at the water line.

Try another PM to me with your email address and I will send additional info and pictures. There are other things you will need to do to the bucket and bulkhead, to get it to open and close properly.

Bill,
I kind of like the way the 16 looks with the additional 19 inches added to it. When you get your boat in the water, let me know how it handles and any thing you would have done differently.

oldgrowth · Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:21 pm Post subject:

Norm,
If you do not have any material for your permatrim, give me a call and if you are ever in the Olympia area, I will cut off a piece for you.
360.951.2814

ffheap · Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject:

Hi Folks,

Tomorrow (March 7th),i start on my spring topics.

1. Fix teak seat. (Have to screw part of it together.)
2. Replace rusted hardware that was used to put the inside of the cabin together
3. Sand and paint cockpit and cabin floor.
4. Put DRY DEK on my cockpit floor and under the aft seat and motor well.
Its on order.
5. Secure new porti potti to deck.
6. Put new running lights on cabin sides. (Old one required one to unscrew fixture from deck, and then unscrew backing from lens. New ones, screws will give immediate access to bulbs, and from the open side windows.)
7. Wire new inside lights in cabin.
8. Try and figure how I can add a windless and build a way to collect the anchor line and chain under the forward deck. (This is still under study.)
9. General maintenance to boat.

That is my list for now.

Fred Heap

oldgrowth · Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:58 am Post subject:

I have updated my hull extension plans for C-Voyager. It’s going to be a 24” extension now instead of 19”. Seeing as this will be the first time I attempt to do anything like this, I thought I would get feedback from as many of the you as possible. Since a picture is worth a thousand words, I created a PDF file with diagrams and descriptions of how I hope to accomplish this. For those of you that will look at it and give me feedback, it is HERE.

Sea Wolf · Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:46 am Post subject:

Dave-

WOW!

Lots of great ideas in your project, both in the extension design, and in the construction techniques!

The sheer magnitude of the whole development project just overwhelms me.

Every project I've ever done always turns out to be much more difficult than first anticipated, though, and the number of problems to solve rises exponentially with the project's degree of difficulty and the amount of new and unknown territory to be encountered.

You've got a really ambitious endeavor planned out here, one that goes way beyond anything I'd ever attempt, but as I've said before, I'm a bit of a chicken in some project areas!

It certainly can be done, but I'm wondering about the sheer number of hours involved and how many unexpected problems will crop up?

And Dave, please be aware that much of what I'm saying is not just directed to or specifically about your proposal, but will be true of most of these hull extension projects.

If I were to do something like this, I'd find a custom fabrication shop with someone who had done these things before, like Billy did. You can still do much or most of the work while relying on their expertise and skill to help you through the hardest parts.

Such a skilled person already has encountered most of these issues of how to build the mold, produce the extension, integrate it with the boat, and make all the other stern modifications before.

Just their familiarity with the materials involved would be an invaluable asset.

I've known a half-dozen or so small scale boat manufacturers personally, and even the experienced ones encounter unexpected problems on all new projects. These will be fun and challenging to solve, but will also eat time and money!

I know you're a very intelligent and clever guy from all our posts and conversations, and all of this shows up dramatically in your preliminary planning, which is admirable and remarkable.

However, if it were me, I'd just trade up the the next larger model C-Dory, and spend my time and money making that boat fit my needs.

This latter approach would also make more sense to me from a financial / resale point of view as well, as many folks would view with great caution such a boat that had been modified significantly.

In closing, I want to compliment you on a fine project design and some great thinking! You've got many great ideas and I admire your insight and creativity.

I wish you the best of luck and certainly want to hear about all your work, thinking, and progress. Hope I haven't offended you with my perhaps overly-cautious approach, but I think all of those involved in projects of this type and magnitude should think about these considerations carefully before proceeding.

With all sincerity and thoughtfulness,

Joe.

Norm S · Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:56 am Post subject:

Dave, Great looking project. Well thought out. I have a few ideas I will PM you in more detail. in short I don't think plaster is going to work on a mold this size. Too much shrinkage and I think cracking would be inevitable. Plus it is a ton of weight to try and maneuver up against the hull.
Norm

Sea Wolf · Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:43 am Post subject:

Dasve-

Now that my initial reaction has been posted, here are some thoughts about the design of your project:

I like the lockable storage compartments, I know storage is a real issue on the 16's.

The two bait / fish wells will be very useful as well.

Are you planning on a specific battery storage compartment in the extension?

By the time you get to the tanks, you might just see if there are any suitable ready made ones that are adaptable to your needs. Also, tanks can be custom fabricated out of aluminum by shops specializing in this. Might save you a lot of trouble in mold development and fabrication.

Have you thought about enclosing the back of the cabin with a solid bulkhead? The solid "Alaskan" bulkhead is one of the most useful features of the CD-22, both in the winter and the summer, and then also in terms of securing the contents of the boat.

Joe and Ruth of R-Matey enclosed the rear of a 19 and did an excellent job. Look in their album for photos. Don't know how hard it would be to do on your modified 16+2.

Have a great day!

Joe.

gljjr · Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:26 am Post subject:

My biggest concern on something like this would be getting a "fair" hull shape all the way to the new transom. If you don't follow the shape of the existing hull all the way to the transom you can end up causing some serious handling issues. IE: If you introduce a warp in the hull it can cause the boat to porpoise or to constantly want to turn one way or another. Shocked

Having said that, WOW this is a huge project! You have done a very good job planning it out and if your work is as well executed as your planning I have no doubt that you will end up with a great product at the end. Good luck and keep us posted!

wailedcentipede · Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject:

never really dealt with plaster mix to any extent but in repairing holes in plastered walls ... like a two foot patch, it was mortar mix in the laths built out and recessed approx 1/8 inch from finish, than the plaster mix was trolled on flush with the existing finish ... the drywall and plaster mixes that we used would not set properly if you were any where near two inches thick .... called it "punky" like soft and cracked took a week to get to this stage and still know good would not harden properly... "small" deep holes in plaster or dry wall was "bondo" recessed 1/8 than top coated flush to surface with appropriate mix ..

what I'm getting at, i sure would experiment with the plaster mixes .. make a small frame and see how it "sets" ... do it in stages rather than one 2 inch pour ??? ... wc

wailedcentipede · Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:21 pm Post subject:

your working (thinking) on "Plaster of Paris" ???? if thats so my previous post is on a different page (thought) altogether ... sorry about that ..... wc

oldgrowth · Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:24 pm Post subject:

Joe, Norm, Gary, & wailedcentipede – thank you very much for the input. I really appreciate it.

The plaster of paris has been my biggest concern on this project. I use the term plaster just because I don’t know what exactly to use at this time. What ever we use will have to be hard enough to maintain its shape and not crack from the pressure of laying the fiberglass.

The nice thing with this design is the extension will be built without touching (making changes to) the boat. I can then bolt it to the transom through the engine boltholes. If it is not a perfect match it can be modified or thrown away and start over. If it matches and the alignment is perfect, I will continue as per my plans. The bottom and bottom half of the sides should be easy to match up. The top half of the sides will take some building out of the original hull, to match the extension.

I have looked for gas tanks that could be used, but cannot find any that keeps the weight low. Don’t want to have any more weight than necessary up the sides. They will be easy to make. My brother will be helping me on this project. When it comes to fabricating, I doubt that I could find anyone better. He has converted, built and extended many boats in Alaska and the Puget Sound region. However, those were steel and wooden fishing boats and tugs in the 35 to 80 foot range.

I know I can affect the resale value of the boat, but I never sell any of my toys.

Batteries will remain where they are. I added a start battery with the deep cycle house battery when I got the boat and moved them under the port seat.

Joe – you don’t have to apologize for your previous post. That is exactly what I want to hear. I appreciate the pats on the back and encouragements. However, even more so, I want to hear the pit falls and things I may not have considered, or you see where I can do something in a better way.

Joe – I also believe you are apologizing way too much for your comments on this site. I believe most people know you well enough to know your intensions are to help and you want to make sure they have thought their plans out toughly and also considered the negative aspect of it.

Again, I want to thank those of you that have commented so far and would appreciate any additional input from anyone, especially if you see a problem, or have any experience with fiberglass and boat extensions. The plans are HERE