Pre-resolving my two-footitis

[Esmi2]

I haven't been able to buy "my" 2000s C-dory 22 high top yet. Sometimes I feel like my shopping efforts are more of a mental exercise than actual movement toward a goal .

That notwithstanding, a year ago I convinced myself that a Venture 23 could work for my projected need.

Recently, I have taken the mental leap to include Rosborough RF-245 in the acceptable boats.

How does the hive mind of the C-Brats forum feel about the Rossi?

(Tho I live on the ocean, my intended use is western lakes, Sacramento delta, and someday Puget Sound and the inside passage. I have plenty of capability to haul 9900 lbs with my current truck. I have virtually no boating experience other than paddleboards, kayaks and occasional ski- and house- boat rentals.)

[DayBreak]

There is lots of information on the web for you to also look at. Rosborough will be a much heavier boat for towing which you may want to consider if you tow up to the PNW and cruise the Inside Passage like you mention. Also, it will probably max out at about 22 knots where that comes into cruising speed for a C-Dory. The fuel economy at that speed will probably be 3 times better in a C-Dory 22 Cruiser. If you plan to travel distance in the Inside Passage, that can equates to much higher fuel costs.

[ssobol]

I've looked hard at the Rossi from time to time.

Compared to the CD22 it is a larger and heavier boat. The hull shape is different. These features will give a better ride in rougher water and the expense of speed and fuel economy.

You can stand up in the V-berth. However, on most models the head is at the head of the bed.

Depending on what model you get, there may not be a dinette.

The side doors on both sides of the cabin look to be very handy compared to reaching out the window of the CD22.

With the extended roof, you can put a dinghy and a davit up there.

You can get a bow thruster.

There is more headroom in the cabin.

The CD-25 is a closer comparison to the Rossi 246 than the CD-22. However, Eastern Boats has made a 22' boat (Sisu) that is a closer match to the CD22.

To me, the Rossi has never been a cozy inside as a CD22.

[-Waypoint-]

Cut the forward bulkhead out! Instant 2-foot gain.

I was REALLY thinking about getting a longer boat too. It took me 5 years to finally get the balls to cut out the forward bulkhead to the v-birth. I wish that I did this when I bought it 5 years ago. I looked at Rosborough really hard.

I think that my 22 cruiser will be my forever boat now!

[thataway]

I considered the Rosborough a number of times, have friends who own one and have ridden on them. The Rosborough 246 is a semi displacement hull (Down East type.). The company had an excellent reputation when built in Canada.

There are more power options and with an outboard bracket, there is a bigger usable boat. Some are powered to operate at displacement speeds. As noted the fuel consumption at planing speeds will be significantly more than a C Dory 25, or Venture 26.

Although the Rosborough is better going into chop, down and quartering seas, the C Dory handles better and is less likely broach or bow steer. I have run in some seas in a C Dory, that I would not attempt with the Rosborough.

In order to have the length of the bunk I would need, I would have to removed the hanging locker and extend the bunk. Although the side doors are nice, for large people they are a bit of a struggle to get out of.

On the other hand, for a lot of people this boat makes sense. If you are seriously considering buying one, get a look and ride. Their forum used to be fairly active--I have not checked on it more recently, but there are more Rosborough gatherings in the last few years.

[JamesTXSD]

Just another opinion: The Rossborough RF-245 is a very nice boat. It's a heavier build than a C-Dory, and more deadrise (deeper V), meaning it will take more horsepower to move it around. It "feels" more spacious to me than a CD-25 (which is significantly more spacious than a CD-22).

Two brats who used to be active on here, Grumpy and Byrdman, have owned C-Dorys and an RF-245. If you reach out to them, I'm sure you would get an honest appraisal and comparison.

When we bought our CD-25, the towing aspect was very important to us, as our plan with it was a lot of trailering to diverse cruising areas. That worked out great for us, but the boat was significantly heavier than the "factory estimate": they said 6500 pounds "all up," when we weighed ours at a Cat Scale, it was 8700 pounds on the trailer, loaded for cruising, very little fuel onboard. We were towing with a 3/4 ton diesel pickup, which handled the load... even better when we put electric over hydraulic brakes on the trailer. I mention this because that 9900 pound tow rating you stated may be stressed with a Rossborough. (And you may want to check the specifics of that tow rating: some require a weight distribution hitch to achieve that max tow rating.)

I liked the layout on the RF-245, including the head in the V-berth and stand-up height. The CD-25 was lighter, required less HP, and is more fuel efficient... all advantages for our use.

If you have put the RF-245 onto your consideration list, I'd suggest you add the C-Dory 25, as well. We cruised on ours up to 6 months at a time (and, yes, still speaking to each other).

Good luck with the decisions and the search.

Jim

[Donald Tyson]

This from Headquarters at C-Dory Boats..........I wrote him last week and he answered today.

Hi Don,

The bulkhead between the V-Birth and the settee in the galley is not structural so it can be removed.

Greg Little
VP of Operations, Owner.
Northwest Marine Industries LLC.
809 Harris Ave. Building 6
Bellingham Wa. 98225
Phone 360-389-5351
Cell 360-393-2447
www.nmiboats.com

[Esmi2]

Thanks for weighing in. I appreciate the input and hope for more discussion.

A couple of responses to the excellent points made above include:

Fuel economy: In my mind, fuel economy might not be all that big a piece of the ownership cost puzzle. If the average outboard* runs for 100 hours per year, the difference between 3gph and 6gph doesn't move the $burn rate by all that much compared to depreciation, other-travel, maintenance, insurance, etc. Granted, the larger boat also increases those other costs by a lot. (*I drew the 100 hrs/yr figure out of pure clean air, I have no idea what the actual figure is).

Tow vehicle: I had not realized, but discovered today, a rule of thumb that you "probably" need a weight distributing hitch anytime the trailer weighs more than 50% of the tow vehicle. I do local hauls with my 6700lb skidsteer on a 3000lb(?) trailer with no issues, but would think twice about hauling that load any considerable distance. Thanks for the heads-up!

Headroom and additional space: I appreciate both, but since I am starting fresh (ie, I don't know any better), I can just as well get used to the smaller version. Which leads directly to the next observation,

My intended use, realistically is Powell, Mead, Flathead, and lots and lots of LAKES in the near term, and the big trip in the longer future. Ergo, a little, easier-to-launch, cheaper to run, boat makes a lot more sense for now. With experience, and presuming continued interest, I can always trade up to a more suitable Inside Passage boat if I identify C-dory shortcomings for those waters that need addressing. (I know that many C-dorys have made the trip in fine fashion).

Absolutely cut out the bulkhead for the additional sleeping space. Virtually no question on that!

Thanks for all the early observations. I hope others will chime in as well!

EDIT TO ADD I also appreciate this C-Brats forum. Rosborough has enthusiastic owners, but it ain't nuthin' like here at the C-Brats. Owning/using/maintaing a boat is a lot easier with a team like this behind you! (Daaaaw..!)

(Whew, I don't think I've ever written this long a post before -- on this site or any other!)

[thataway]

Your comment about lake launching is spot on--Powell especially has shallow ramps and the draft of the boat, plus ability to go stern to the beach is important. Often we put a rock behind the transom, and go ashore with no splashing involved--dry landing at the beach.

As for the AK part of cruising, the C Dory is fine--I don't see an advantage of the Rossborough.

[Donald Tyson]

I boated for years but never had a boat that I could go anywhere in. Some were big and heavy but most were smaller and nimble but still they were not set up so I could really go anywhere.
The things that affected me the most positively happened once I joined certain sites filled with patient experienced boaters. I first joined Wooden Boat, then Searay, Trawler Forum, AGLCA, and finally C-Dory. The latter two sites are daily helping me learn how to think, perceive and learn the necessary info for safe and fun boating. I needed and still need to know how to acquire information and how to talk about issues....it's probably a lifetime process from here on. So I advocate the same for you and I hope C-Brats remains one of your most important sites.
I'll soon be joining (fall) the list of folks who have removed their bulkheads. Isn't that something.

[ssobol]

[Esmi2]

Absolutely. The Venture 23 is on my short list. I passed on that recent one for sale in Texas (Easy Victor) because I am a bonehead. Several talks with the owner indicated it was a good match, but I couldn't/didn't change my travel plans to be available in time to make it happen (I suspect "cold feet" influenced that inability). Yes. Venture 23 seems like an excellent choice...

... although ... somewhat counter to the collective wisdom as presented on this board, I find a dedicated head an inappropriate use of space on a boat this size. But, this is a theoretical observation for me (though it has been borne out by experience in a collection of small campers).

[Salmon Fisher]

Well, if it were me, I wouldn't be waiting for years.

Right now there's an excellent 1989 just listed today in Oregon with new Honda 90 motor!

Run, don't walk, to be first in line for this C-Dory 22 Cruiser with modern style hull.

Just sayin'...

[DayBreak]

Good eye Patrick and for $28,500. Those interested should call now, ask about a deposit with the option to back out if the boat is not what was expected etc. A marine survey would be wise to help protect that the boat does not require further expense.

....Looks clean http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=Fairweather&id=C_Dory_015&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

[Grumpy]

As Capt. Jim mentioned we have owned a Rossi after a CD22 and a Grady 25.

Most of the pertinent comments on the differences have already been made.

Ours was fitted out by the legendary Les at EQ with just about all the bells and whistles available at that time and happily took us a number of times around Puget Sound, the Gulf Islands and Broughtons. Sometimes alone but often with old friend from this group, the Ranger tug gang and the RF population in the area.

We had 2 ea Honda 130's which were perfect.

Yes it will handle some nasty seas head on. It is very wet but safe. Downwind above about 4 ft waves you need to watch out with the speed to avoid any tendency to broach. My feel on this is that the version with the hull extension has perhaps a little too much bouyancy at the stern.
I say that having followed another RF without the extension in big rollers and they had less issues than we did.

The remains of a keg (from the inboard version) also make it interesting if you try to traverse the whirlpools in Deception Pass on a full ebb tide. Wife and dogs will complain !

With the hull extension it becomes quite a bit longer and you will need more like a 30 ft slip.

A great boat but it is exactly what it is. Great for cruising at 15 Kts but if you want to go faster, get a deep V.

Greetings to all our good friends on this site. Many great memories.

Merv (Grumpy) & Kathy