View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
KevinMc
Joined: 10 Sep 2023 Posts: 22 City/Region: Venice
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Sea~Dory~Able
|
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2024 8:16 pm Post subject: A/C for Venture 23. |
|
|
Hi to all you Folks out there in Doryland,The weather is changing here in south Florida,I can now do some needed upgrades to Sea~Dory~Able.I was considering roof top A/C or the traditional water-cooled with through hull or a carry aboard.I did order a roof top unit but cancelled the order until I feel more comfortable with the options available.
I am concerned about the Roof top RV option due to righting moment and the extra 100+ Lbs so much above the waterline on an already tender boat.
I was also leaning (no Pun) toward the traditional water cooled marine A/C but finding the cabinet space is challenging what with the fresh water tank taking up most of the aft port side seating cabinet,which would be a perfect spot!There are some advanced new portables out there but still take up room and seem too tall to fit under the table,what to do?
I think the roof top option may be the best but all the reputable R/V units
(120Volts) may be too powerful at 9K btu and above for 104 Sqft / under 830Cuft. Any thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.KevinMc.P.s I saw Dr. Bobs' solution but will hold off on the roof hole for now. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 21084 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
|
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2024 11:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well "Dr Bob" has other solutions: one is the window unit. You will see photos in various parts of my photo album--specifically in the last 27, although we ran 5,000 BTU window units in both 22's and 25's we owned. Another option is the window unit in the door, with reflectix foil for the rest of the "door space. You need an extra fan to get the cold air up--since if flows downward. 5,000 Btu is marginal for the 25. We were in 106* at Benicia in the Sacramento Delta area. I had the Reflextix, cut out for the windows and doors, plus black out shades, and the window air conditioner got the temp down to 86--better than none. John in Cat o Mine uses a 15,000 BTU unit on his Tom Cat. I felt that the 9200 BTU unit was about right for the Tom Cat-
Any of these will run off Honda 2200 BTU generators, especially if you put an EasyStart or similar on to decrease the starting current. I had not measured the inrush--but it is close to locked rotor on most of these roof airs. Your point on the wegiht is well noted. We put radar arches, dinghies weighing close to 100 lbs up on the roof--etc--even a sun pad or a 2 room pop up extra stateroom (bunk for 2--probably in the 400 lb with two average adults in the bunk on a Venture 26. I know of a 22 iwth a sun pad where 2 gals sunbathed --maybe 300# total? But it is less stable.
There are several other options--one is the portable where you have to run the exaust, warm humidified air out a window or door. Usually this is the Port side widow forward--sort of interferes with the admiral/navigator, if they want to sit up there. We used one of these once--it was sort of a pain sitting in the Isle, fans to recirculate, and the exhaust warm air disposal.
Under the forward bunk is one place where you could put AC or 12 volt DC marine air conditioning compressor, usually the evaporator is somewhere you can duct air into the forward cabin and mid cabin. The condenser coils are. water cooled--also helps to cool the compresser. If you want to go 12 volt, I would count on at least 300 amps of Li Fe PO4 batteries to run the unit into the night.
What will you use to power any of these? _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ssobol
Joined: 27 Oct 2012 Posts: 3457 City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
|
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 9:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
I go with the window AC option. My unmodified 5K BTU will run on a Honda 1000 generator. Since I only use the AC part time, having it removable is nice. I can leave it home when I don't need it. Being in FL might be a different story.
Disadvantage with the window unit is you can't really drive the boat with it in the window.
You might look at 12v RV rooftop AC units. Nomadic makes a unit that is less the 50#.
https://www.nomadiccooling.com/our-products |
|
Back to top |
|
|
RobMcClain
Joined: 21 May 2012 Posts: 357 City/Region: Summerlin, NV
State or Province: NV
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Freedom
Photos: Freedom
|
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 9:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
We used a portable window unit in our Venture 23. The only caution is the somewhat cumbersome difficulty getting it up and positioned on the deck. It worked great once in place, cooling the main cabin wonderfully. The one glitch was the cool air didn’t effectively drift forward into the v-berth area. To resolve this I used a short piece of the flexible 3” hose normally used to vent a dryer. I connected one end to one of the vent port on the AC unit and simply bent it downward 180 degrees so it was blowing into the V-berth. This worked wonderfully and didn’t noticeably diminish any cool air from the main cabin. You can see a photo of this in our Projects sub-album.
Rob |
|
Back to top |
|
|
thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 21084 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
|
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The reported weights between the 12 volt unit, and the 9200 BTU unit is only 30 lbs. The 9200 BTU costs 25% of the cost of the 12 volt unit. The 12 v. does not give BTU (that I have found yet). You probably going to want shore power or a generator running (although Li Fe PO4 batteries and a 2000 watt Victron multiplus (and a few others) would handle the load of the 9200 Coleman roof air. Plus the 80 amp battery charging required by a big "house bank" to give you cooling at night. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ssobol
Joined: 27 Oct 2012 Posts: 3457 City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
|
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
RobMcClain wrote: | We used a portable window unit in our Venture 23. The only caution is the somewhat cumbersome difficulty getting it up and positioned on the deck. It worked great once in place, cooling the main cabin wonderfully. The one glitch was the cool air didn’t effectively drift forward into the v-berth area. To resolve this I used a short piece of the flexible 3” hose normally used to vent a dryer. I connected one end to one of the vent port on the AC unit and simply bent it downward 180 degrees so it was blowing into the V-berth. This worked wonderfully and didn’t noticeably diminish any cool air from the main cabin. You can see a photo of this in our Projects sub-album.
Rob |
I have a fan that hangs in the berth opening that blows the air from the cabin into the berth. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 21084 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
|
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
On the subject of fans--and they are as important in the PNW as in Florida".We have at least 4 Caframo fans through out the 22's and 25's. One on each side of the bunk to blow on the person in the bunk--one by the helm center and one aft blowing over the aft dinette seat. We also had a "Vantastic" RV fan over the forward hatch, similar to bathroom fans in RVs--usually 3 speeds, 5/8" dowel rods to rest the fan on--with flat places so they don't roll on the edges of the hatch--this is external to the screen or shade over the V berth hatch. The ones over the bunks have remote controls, so easy to reach in the bunk or from external, plus lights in the center.
We also carried a Ryobi fan which had its own stand, and would run all night on the same 4 or 6 amp battery. We would often put this by the opening window in the windshield when not using the AC. Also in my album are a number of tricks to using the fan: a block and tackle system to lift it in place, wooden runners, handles on each side, pool noodles and a skirt to seal the opening around the window.
Below is the Ryobi fan, Camfro fan
Below is the spreader bar and block and tackle to raise the AC from under the bunk, to the window--hooking into the D handles in the 3rd photo. Also skirt around the AC.
handles on the window AC unit.
Windows have the reflectix Mylar/bubble wrap and black out shades to help heat gain or loss through the windows. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
srbaum
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 Posts: 899 City/Region: Portsmouth
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
|
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 3:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
KevinMc,
When I got a 22, we did a lot of cruising and found that in the summer, we needed more comfort, on the hot muggy, windless days, specially when moored at a marina, which blocked any wind at all. Next we chose a simple window A/C unit, which worked well and kept us reasonably comfortable. The downside of the window unit, was installing it, after many hours underway, when I was tired and we were moored in the hot and windless marina setting. Several times, I almost slipped off the bow, just from sweating. Several times, I almost lost the A/C overboard, while on the bow...
Enough of that!
Next I installed a low profile A/C rooftop unit. No notable stability issues, we have cold air and we have heat, just a soon as it was plugged in. We absolutely loved this. The negative side of the rooftop is the noise that it makes. In the cabin, its just minimal white noise, but if you are on the adjacent pier, it would annoy anyone moored next to you. Knowing this, I always ensured that I moored as far from others as possible.
My 26 has a built in unit. No noise and very low power draw, much lower than the rooftop. The downside of the built in unit is that it is water-cooled, so using the A/C, while traveling on the trailer is no possible. _________________ Steve Baum
Homeport of Portsmouth, VA
OSPREY (Ex Mister Sea) 2000 22 C-Dory 2010 - Sold 3/19
OSPREY (Ex ADITI) 2007 26 Cape Cruiser 2018 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ssobol
Joined: 27 Oct 2012 Posts: 3457 City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
|
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2024 12:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
srbaum wrote: | ... Next we chose a simple window A/C unit, which worked well and kept us reasonably comfortable. The downside of the window unit, was installing it, after many hours underway, when I was tired and we were moored in the hot and windless marina setting. Several times, I almost slipped off the bow, just from sweating. Several times, I almost lost the A/C overboard, while on the bow...
... |
My window AC unit is installed in the window from inside the cabin. I don't need to go on the bow for anything related to getting the AC setup. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 21084 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
|
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2024 10:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
I am surprised that any put the AC in from the outside. Wooden runners on the bottom, which lock it in place on the lip of the window, with the block and tackle/and either anti slip mat or shop rags under the metal/wood when sliding it forward. This also allows you to keep the skirt attached, and easy to deploy.
Several boats put the window air conditioner in the starboard back window in the 22. Even in the door works in a pinch. (Like running the boat with window AC on.)
One other downside of the raw water cool marine AC is jelly fish will plug up the filter quickly--even a minnow will plug it up. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Swee Pea
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 405 City/Region: Bath
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Swee Pea
Photos: Swee Pea
|
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 5:15 am Post subject: AC |
|
|
Roof top all the way. I love mine.
John
Swee Pea |
|
Back to top |
|
|
-Waypoint-
Joined: 02 Nov 2019 Posts: 101 City/Region: Jensen Beach, Florida
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 1998
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Waypoint
Photos: Waypoint
|
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2024 8:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Rooftop for our boat is the way to go for us. Mostly because we use it while underway in the summertime at 18 kts. _________________ Mark n' Yuka Elwell |
|
Back to top |
|
|
KevinMc
Joined: 10 Sep 2023 Posts: 22 City/Region: Venice
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Sea~Dory~Able
|
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 1:08 pm Post subject: A/C for Venture 23. |
|
|
Thanks for all the suggestions,I am still mulling over 120V or 12V and combinations thereof. I did look at the split unit at 12V used primarily in tractor trailer cabs mounted in the cab rear wall with flexible hose line set.
Maybe mounting on the starboard outside bulkhead under the window and running the lines through the cable access hole under the gunnel and mounting the air handler / fan above the starboard window inside.Just thinking,I have not taken measurement at this point but will draw to scale and calculate needed amps.I do have 200 amp solar and two Lipo4 100 amp batteries (partially installed)not active at this time.I will do more research and consult the solar gurus.Please keep the conversation going.KevinMc |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ssobol
Joined: 27 Oct 2012 Posts: 3457 City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
|
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 5:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just remember with a split is that the outside unit will be dumping heat. If this blows into the cockpit, it might make that area uncomfortable (especially on days where you need to use the AC). The other thing is that the split units come with fixed lengths hoses (usually something like 16ft). If you don't need that much run, you either have to store the excess somewhere or have custom hoses made.
I would put the outside unit on the roof. But then you might as well just get a roof AC unit. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Full Circle
Joined: 22 Apr 2022 Posts: 23 City/Region: Grand Junction
State or Province: CO
C-Dory Year: 2019
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Full Circle
|
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I wanted to add AC to Full Circle for our Great Loop trip and did lots of research. We never got it done and suffered a little as a result. A rooftop unit was the easiest way to go, but our roof was completely occupied by the Roofnest roof tent with solar panels on top.
Nevertheless, I came across a couple of solutions that I liked which haven’t been mentioned here yet.
1: Dometic RTX 1000/2000 12V rooftop units. These are real AC units with efficient 12V compressors. Compared to 120V units, they are substantially lighter, quieter, and lower-profile. You’ll want 400-ish amp-hours (at 12v) of battery capacity and 400+ watts of solar if you don’t have a generator.
2: There are a few relatively new portable AC units that tick a lot of boxes for C-Dory cooling. My favorite is the new ZeroBreeze Mark 3. Think sewing machine-sized box with flexible ducts for intake/output air. 5280 BTUs, 22 lbs, 46 dbs, condensation drain pump. It’s 48v, so you either buy the battery packs that attach to the unit and charge them using 110v current when available, or you use your house bank and convert to 48v. Similar units are made by Bouge RV and Ecoflow. My measurements suggested that it would sit on top of the dash above the V-berth opening with the exhaust hose sticking out the center window and the cool air blowing into the cabin via the built-in vent or ducted into the V-berth at night through the duct hose. We fabricated a curtain for the V-berth opening. Poking the hose through the corner should allow the unit to maintain pleasant sleeeping temps using very little power. (The Mark 3 has a thermostat; the Mark 2 did not.)
Regarding rooftop units, I’m surprised any of them can withstand regular salt water baths. They are engineered to sit on top of RVs, after all. _________________ Dan & Mary Wulfman
2019 26' Venture - Full Circle
Completed America's Great Loop Sep 2024 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|