Bad windlass motor?

[krc]

A couple of weekends ago I was out fishing and had a stuck anchor. I was able to release but noticed that the windlass pull was "not as strong". I figured that in the process of working the anchor loose with the boat and pulling it up the battery drained out. But, windlass was still not operating "full strength" when I got back to the dock. Ex: I can let the chain out on the dock but then it just isn't strong enough to pull the anchor itself off the dock and it just stops. No circuit blows.

So, battery tester for the 690MCA load check was good. Voltage is like 12.8. I was concerned that the charger was not working or the vsr (BEP) wasn't switching. Anchor is tied to house battery. Voltage drop when pulling up and "stopping" was around 11v. I brought down my own charger but it only ran for maybe 10 minutes then said FUL.
So I wired up a new circuit to windlass switch at the helm and wired into the starboard start battery - that had the same result. Very difficult to pull up and eventually stops.

The wiring from the switch to the motor looks good - nothing obvious. I was really thinking this was a battery issue but it is a one year old battery, the load tests look good, the voltage drop at load looks minimal, and same issue when using the start battery.

So, what is next? Are these motors repairable? I have to think this is the next step. I have a doc with the manuals saying "lewmar" but no part # I can get to- just a warranty. Boat is a 2006 and I think original to the boat. Motor housing has no info other than warning stickers.

What is the way to pull these motors out? I assume I can do this without pullig off the pull on the top deck? So there are bolts that seem to bolt through the top deck, then other bolts that attach the motor to the "housing" or frame. I assume I pull this and the motor will drop out?

I will put the pic in the album.
With a motor that I suspect is so old, do you just replace the motor or does whole windlass need replacing?

I do note that it is also hard to pull in manually with the sprocket, but that could be me just doing something wrong. I have to pull that lever out on the top side of the windless to get it winding up manually (lifting the anchor).

Ideas?

[krc]

I was curious where the windlass wires from the batter to the breaker to the switch to the motor were located and brought my toner down but that doesn't work too well. Fluke 3000. I guess too many cables all tied together...
How do people approach the job of tracing wires? Sure, continuity would work but you have to remove the connections from the various busses etc... correct?

[srbaum]

Krc,
My Lewmar windlass stopped working last year. After extensive troubleshooting, before taking the windlass apart, everything stated that the motor was bad. I ordered a motor and upon receipt, removed my windlass to repair it. I found that the gearbox was damaged. I ordered a new Lewmar windlass. I have a new motor, if you need one...
PS, do you have a name? If so, why not put it in your profile...

[WannabeCBrat]

Sounds like you have a problem with not having enough amperage going to Lewmar windlass motor. They typically require a high amperage to operate.
Having voltage to that motor without the amps, you can burn out your motor really easy. You would be much better off having a relay in addition to the switch for the Windlass motor. I am not sure if Lewmar windlass include a relay in their setup. My 2006 C-Dory Cruiser did not have any relays installed, only switches, and would have melted the wires after installing my light bar without a relay.

Check the gauge wire running from your windlass to your switch. Follow that wire to its source of power (ie battery or panel). If it's getting power from your panel, make sure your panel has two gauges lower than the windlass (ie panel should have 8-gauge and windlass a 10-gauge wire. If it's connected directly to your battery, you should have at least 10 gauge if your battery is in the back of your boat with the windlass motor being in front. Basically, check that the wire powering your windlass (and check the AMP requirement of the windlass) to be sure it's larger diameter than what is powering it, or if connected to a switch, make sure the switch can handle the AMPS powering the windless. The thicker the wire, the more AMPS the wire can handle. A relay helps a lot in these situations.

[krc]

The anchor has worked for years without issue, so I was originally thinking the battery because I agree it "seems" like a current sourcing issue. But the battery tested good (load tested) and when I ran new wire direct from battery to the motor there was no improvement. That new circuit let me move and test with the other start batteries as well and same result. Pretty confident now that the wiring and batteries are good... I think.
I guess maybe I just pull out the entire windlass, motor, gearbox etc. vs just pulling the motor. Will give that a go then I can bench test it.

[krc]

This is a simpson lawrence sprint 600 which doesn't seem to have any spare replacement parts. But haven't looked too hard yet.
Is anyone familiar with this model? Is the main option not a repair option but a replacement? Is there a replacement model that fits the same cutout?

[thataway]

I may have missed it, but is the windlass shaft vertical or horizontal? If the motor is below the deck, it is vertical. If in the case above the deck, Horizontal. In any case, you will have to pull it to get to the point of disassembly to get to the motor. I find that our "Starter and Alternator" shop has been able to repair most 12 volt motors I bring to them.

A few points: agree ref the windlass relays. The most common windlass is the Lewmar H 700. Max current is stated at 35 amp, but realistically there is a 50 amp breaker. For a 50' run of the wire (from starting battery--which is the proper battery to be using, with the motor at a fast idle.) you want to be using #6 wire. If you have the relay, then #6 to the relay and from the relay to the windlass. Another feature of the relay is you can use a wireless or wired remote. I put one 50 amp breaker near the battery and a second 50 amp breaker near the helm, which becomes the "on" switch for the windlass. You want it OFF unless you are raising the anchor or taking up slack. NOTE, not used to break the anchor out.

For those who are newer to boating: you should power the boat up to the point where it sits directly over the anchor. Use the windlass to take up slack in the rode. You most likely will be at a point with chain when over the anchor (if you have 50 feet of chain, and in no more than 40 feet of water.). Use the boat's power to break the anchor out. This means cleating off the rode or chain, and not allowing the windless to take up slack or as a point of pull until the anchor is broken out of the bottom--you want the bow cleat to take this load. (Use a chain hook on chain to the bow cleat). After the anchor is broken out, then use the windlass to bring the anchor onto the roller. (If there is mud, I usually run the boat in reverse until the anchor is all clear of mud).

If you have a Fluke 3000 then you are most likely at the professional or very advanced amateur in the knowledge of electrical circuits. When I first get a boat, I like to try and trace out circuits and label at the switch and at the end point. I just use a simple labeler.

A couple of other tools in the bag, include several leads 20 or so feet long, with alligator clips, and I use a NOCO Boost HD GB70 2000A jump pack for a secondary 12 volt power source to check out circuits. Also a clamp on AC/ DC power meter up to 400 amps with the other DVM functions. (You probably have a Fluke?)

[krc]

The toner was for tracing a lot of junky wiring in my house that was done by a previous owner. LOL. Yeah - standard electrician tools as I do a lot of wiring around the house, 220v for the tools, etc...
I found the sprint manual and peak amp draw is 40A. I think the breaker was 35A that is rear of the captains seat. The up/down toggle is in the bridge area, right bottom. I also have a clamp meter for detecting phantom draws in my cars (don't ask).
I have read a few posts here on this site regarding the sprint 600 and this seems to be a common problem. In some cases, it is also binding in the gear train that can cause this issue (and I was wondering why I was having difficulty manually retrieving - maybe related, maybe not).
Yes, newbie to boating. But I usually try to get the boat up to the anchor before lifting out.
Anyone replace this with v700? How easy was the job? A diy project or better to turn to some experts?

[thataway]

You should be able to get the information for the Lewmar V700 for the deck cutout. I believe that the same cutout, or minimal modification from the Sprint 600 will make the Lewmar V 700 work. The advantage of the V shaft is that there is less "gear" on deck. The disadvantage is that you need a lot of "fall" (distance between the windlass, and where the line or chain is dropping, to keep pressure on the gypsy. I like using 8 plait line, since it stows in considerably less space than the 3 strand. I believe the 700 and 1000 series can be with the switch or the relays. I have had both-prefer the relay, but the simplify of the direct switch is nice., unless you want a remote. Heavier wire does keep the motor voltage higher. Always check for negative path corrosion. This is often overlooked. Check the voltage at the motor. If you have an extra battery or jump pack, check to see how the motor does (you may have already done this. The clamp on amp meter is a nice trouble shooting tool, to see what the motor is drawing as it is loaded.

Here is the V 700 manual.

Here is the template

All of this should be DIY

[krc]

Assuming once I pull the 600 that it is bad and not repairable, I am thinking now might be good time to add a remote. So, I guess that means a rewiring job. Where do folks put the contactor on a 25? I read it should be close to the anchor locker but that means live wire up through the berth and into the locker - right? Currently the power goes to a toggle switch at the helm and two wire power is switched to the motor ("off" through the berth). So that needs a three wire toggle there as well... what is the best way to extend the power that is at the helm (8g) to the anchor locker? What sort of connection for a very thick cable to very thick cable that is protected?

So - live battery 8g to anchor locker where contactor sits. 3 wire out of that to the toggle switch at helm. And then I guess you just wire in a remote

[B~C]

electric motors are fun, one always wonders isit the motor or the circuit. A lot of good motors are mistakenly replaced. Here's a good battle plan to follow.
*Load test the battery. the battery must be healthy before proceeding
*check the amp draw of the motor.
If high- it's probably a mechanical problem or, less likely, a short
does the gypsy .rotate manually, does it feel rough, is there a lot of play in the bearings
If low- it's an electrical connection or conductor problem. get a good jumper wire so you can connect your meter to the + connection on the motor and the + connection on the battery. energize the circuit and read the voltage drop. anything more than a couple of tenths drop indicates a bad connection somewhere.. repeat test on the ground side of the circuit. if the circuit test out good, the odds are the brushes in the motor are bad.

good luck

[thataway]

The contractors (relays) are usually near the console. The heavy wire goes on up to the motor. (Even though the motor wiring may be smaller), No matter what the configuration, I want a windlass cut off near the helm, and only energized when you are ready to use the windlass. The wired remote would be wired in at the console, with a plug. The receiver for the wireless remote (about $350) is wired in near the contractor. The wired remote can be the dash, but still should have wiring to the contractor. (the kit instructions show this schematic)

Your question about "live wire" is answered by the breaker before the contractor, no matter where you put it. Use the breaker as an "on" switch, some of the remotes also have an "on" switch, as well as the up and down.

I first saw the wireless remote, used either by Jay or Jody at Lake Powell. they had pulled the stern of the 22 to a rock where they could easily hop off, and then used the wireless to pull the boat back out clear of the shore. The reverse when boarding.

[srbaum]

KRC,
When I replaced my vertical Lewmar windlass last year, the relay got mounted behind my steering console. The one that was removed, was the same model, but its relay and switch were combined as a unit and were much smaller than the new one with a separate relay and switch.
One thing that was the same, was the windlass' mounting hole, though the exposed balsa core was not sealed. I did gouge out some of the core and used clean epoxy, then before completely cured, mixed epoxy with filler and filled in the remaining void, where I had removed balsa.

[krc]

I pulled the windlass out today and will take home and play with it. Pretty sure it is the motor or gear train (i noticed it was much more difficult to manually pull up the anchor via sprocket). Battery was load tested and fine. ]As well, I tried with direct wiring from a start battery and still no dice, so pretty sure something in the windlass.

With an 18 year old windlass, probably better to replace anyway is my thinking unless I find something obvious.

[journey on]

Journey On is a 25 2005, and it came with a vertical Lewmar 600. It failed when we were in the San Juans, 1200 miles from home. Since we were in cruising mode I just replaced the V600 with a V700. When we had the time, I dissembled the V600.

I found sand in the gearbox, entering through a crappy seal. That's why they don't make the 600 any more, with a better seal/design in the V700. Whilst the V700 has lasted, I should have used a H700, with a horizontal capstan. I put a couple of pictures in Journey On's album, showing the sand intrusion.

Shortly after the factory changed to horizontal capstans, not a coincidence I'm sure, since other owners complained.

On installing the new windlass, I had to make a plate to cover the old hole since the new windlass had a bigger footprint. Used 4 bolts and 4000 to hold it down. I'm sure you'd need a new cover plate for a H700 windlass. Mine has worked for 10 years, both the mounting and windlass. Also noted that the V600 did not come with a relay, but the V700 did. Pics in the Journey On album, bottom of pg. 2

Remember, get a H700 for a replacement.

Boris