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roger.lees51@gmail.com
Joined: 20 Mar 2023 Posts: 4 City/Region: Windsor
State or Province: CA
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:30 pm Post subject: honda 150 will not start |
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Hello, I have a Honda BF150A. We fished our local bay Saturday and the motor ran great(first use after a full tune up at the Honda Service center). We pulled up to the dock, shut the motor off and now it will not start. It turns over, but sems to be turning a bit slower than normal. I have two batteries(one of which is only one year old). Trying either battery or both makes no difference. Could I be losing voltage some where between the batteries and the motor? We by-passed the kill switch and that did not do it. Again, the motor seems to be turning a bit slow. The motor only has 700 hrs. When they tuned it they also di a compression check and all was good. As I said, the motor ran great for 6 hours.
Any advise is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Roger |
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Salmon Fisher
Joined: 07 Aug 2009 Posts: 810 City/Region: Arlington
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Kim Christine
Photos: Kim Christine
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Check the kill switch to which the lanyard is attached. The switch may be partially pulled off. _________________ Patrick and Kim Walker
2004 25 Cruiser-Present
2000 22 Cruiser 2009-2014 (Sold)
2006 25 Cruiser 2014-2019 (Sold)
1985 22 Classic -2019 (Sold)
1991 19 Arima Sea Ranger-2019-2021 (Sold)
2015 27 Ranger Tug-2019-2023 (Sold)
1987 22 Cruiser -2021-2023 (Sold)
Honey, this REALLY will be my last boat, honest! |
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ssobol
Joined: 27 Oct 2012 Posts: 3382 City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Don't know if this is the same problem, but I had an issue with my Nissan truck. It seems that if the ECU voltage drops too low, the ECU won't run so neither will the engine. When this happens there is still enough juice to crank for quite awhile, but if the ECU voltage drops below 11.7, there is no way to get the motor to start. With this particular truck, some people have added a separate battery to just power the ECU. This fixes the start problem.
Not saying that this is your problem, but you might want to check the voltage to the ECU while cranking.
Check that they didn't knock off or loosen a ground wire to the engine too. |
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T.R. Bauer
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 1736 City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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You need to verify compression, spark and fuel otherwise we're all just shooting rounds up into the night sky hoping to hit something. As always check the simple and easy stuff first is my advice. |
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Schuster
Joined: 25 Mar 2009 Posts: 121 City/Region: Port Orchard
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Witch
Photos: Sea Witch
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:40 am Post subject: |
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Roger, I would have to agree with T.R. in that you need a good starting point. I would check each battery separately as you mentioned you only replaced 1 battery which can be a problem. If one battery has a short in it, it can bring the other one down too. I would have both of the batteries load tested to make sure you have a good starting point. Then after you have insurance that you have good battery power follow the current down to the plugs for spark. If none then it could be a component somewhere in between like the ECU or a fuse. You mentioned that it just had a compression test and all was good. So, that brings us to the fuel. Check you Racor filter/water separator for water. If it was just serviced check to see if the fuel filters were changed out. How old is the fuel? Is it pure gas (non-ethanol) or just regular you filled up at the gas station?
It does sound electrical at this point so that's where I would concentrate my efforts. Good luck. _________________ Dave
(Sea Witch)
25' Cruiser |
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roger.lees51@gmail.com
Joined: 20 Mar 2023 Posts: 4 City/Region: Windsor
State or Province: CA
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you all for the reply. Except for pulling the plugs, we tested everything else and everything was okay. I was just hoping to avoid pulling the plugs, but I guess that's next.
Thank you all for the response(s). |
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T.R. Bauer
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 1736 City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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Keep us in the loop and I hope it is an easy and inexpensive fix |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20829 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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What is the battery voltage (measured with a DVM) at the battery before cranking and when cranking? Also check the voltage at the solenoid when cranking.
Check all of the grounds; take the wires off the post, use a fine SS wire brush and burnish the fitting/post etc and put back on with a wrench. Don't use wing nuts or Nylon nuts on the battery. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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ssobol
Joined: 27 Oct 2012 Posts: 3382 City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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thataway wrote: | ... or Nylon nuts on the battery. |
Why not?
My boat batteries have had SS nylon nuts its entire life. |
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T.R. Bauer
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 1736 City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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ssobol wrote: | thataway wrote: | ... or Nylon nuts on the battery. |
Why not?
My boat batteries have had SS nylon nuts its entire life. |
My experience is they are generally fine. The problem is getting them off quickly....you might be able to with wingnuts. Also, they can melt if there is a lot of current. And finally, they are generally considered a one time use item. With all that said, it probably doesn't matter that much. I use regular old SS nuts with lock washers because I don't want the stupid wing nuts to loosen, which they often do, negating any safety they provided with a shower of sparks followed by a big boom. |
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roger.lees51@gmail.com
Joined: 20 Mar 2023 Posts: 4 City/Region: Windsor
State or Province: CA
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Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you all! If it ever quits raining here (n. ca) I will pull a plug and check for spark. One item I have yet to check is the connection between the batteries and the the motor itself. The cables run under the deck them come out at the stern. They are then connected to the leads to the motor. I had the center console pulled/replaced last year (I put in a new wood deck). They reconnected the cables and if I remember correctly, they wrapped them in either shrink wrap or tape. It's a very dry area but I have never inspected their connection. It's a process of elimination!
Thank you all again!! |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20829 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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The objection of Nyloc nuts is as T.R. Bauer states is that the "nylon" locking material may melt. Genuine Nyloc nuts may be OK--since they have nylon material which has a high melting temperature...I have seen some which did melt at relatively low temperature, and they are most likely a copy of the genuine Nyloc nut. (There are so many nylon insert nuts which are good, and which are bad, it is beyond the scope of this post.). Sticking with known brands, such as Nyloc is important. There are many styles of insert locking nuts--depending on the depth of the steel thread, what material is used, how deep the nut is and amount of metal threaded material in contact with the bolt or stud, the type of base etc.
ABYC is silent on the subject of Nylon insert nuts. However they do call for proper torque of the nut with lock washer. No washer should be the cables (no more than 4), the largest cable at the bottom, and moving up to smallest (consider current draw) at the top. It is permissible and often desirable to put a washer under the locking washer. NO washer should be placed at the bottom, next to the battery case.
The cable fitting "eye" should be the same size as the hole in the flag terminal or in some cases the threaded stud, or threaded insert.
Wing nuts are not allowed on cables greater than 6 gauge in size under ABYC, because they cannot be properly torqued.
The table below shows torque on the nuts for Trojan Batteries. Such tables should be available for every battery. (in reality it is not). The torque on Nylon insert nuts should be "prevailing torque" called for, plus specific torque for that battery.
Prevailing torque, is the force needed to thread the nylon insert nut down, to where it is solidly against the washer between it and the terminals.
How many C Brats are properly torquing their nuts on battery terminals? I do carry a torque wrench (3/8 drive) in my tool kit. |
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T.R. Bauer
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 1736 City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
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Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Bob for the very informative posting. I didn't know that 6 gauge recommendation and not using wing nuts. I also bet most folks didn't realize there is a torque recommendation for battery hardware and suspect their nuts are all too tight....LOL...I remember working in the RV industry and wondered what the heck they tightened up their batteries with - probably a 18 inch breaker bar. Overtightening can cause issues.
But back to the original poster - hope you get to the bottom of it and it's not too big of a headache.... |
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roger.lees51@gmail.com
Joined: 20 Mar 2023 Posts: 4 City/Region: Windsor
State or Province: CA
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:02 pm Post subject: update on my Honda 150 |
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Well, we finally got a break in the weather.
Yesterday we pulled a plug and tested for spark and there is none. We have checked all electrical connections (with a meter), by-passed the kill switch, etc,etc,etc. We suspect it is a faulty link in one of the kill switches in the system(low oil, over heating, etc.) but I have no way of by-passing the ignition switch and without a schematic of the electrical system I have no idea what to look for.
My friend who is helping me trouble shoot is a very, very competent electrician who worked in an outboard shop in the past. I think we have gone as far as we can and it's off to the shop, unless someone has a suggestion.
As always, thanks in advance for your replies! |
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T.R. Bauer
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 1736 City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Ignition control modules, also called ignitors or CDI units, can and do fail. I've replaced them before, and the way your failure happened, it wouldn't surprise me in the least it just flat out died on you. |
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