honda 150 will not start

[roger.lees51@gmail.com]

Hello, I have a Honda BF150A. We fished our local bay Saturday and the motor ran great(first use after a full tune up at the Honda Service center). We pulled up to the dock, shut the motor off and now it will not start. It turns over, but sems to be turning a bit slower than normal. I have two batteries(one of which is only one year old). Trying either battery or both makes no difference. Could I be losing voltage some where between the batteries and the motor? We by-passed the kill switch and that did not do it. Again, the motor seems to be turning a bit slow. The motor only has 700 hrs. When they tuned it they also di a compression check and all was good. As I said, the motor ran great for 6 hours.
Any advise is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Roger

[Salmon Fisher]

Check the kill switch to which the lanyard is attached. The switch may be partially pulled off.

[ssobol]

Don't know if this is the same problem, but I had an issue with my Nissan truck. It seems that if the ECU voltage drops too low, the ECU won't run so neither will the engine. When this happens there is still enough juice to crank for quite awhile, but if the ECU voltage drops below 11.7, there is no way to get the motor to start. With this particular truck, some people have added a separate battery to just power the ECU. This fixes the start problem.

Not saying that this is your problem, but you might want to check the voltage to the ECU while cranking.

Check that they didn't knock off or loosen a ground wire to the engine too.

[T.R. Bauer]

You need to verify compression, spark and fuel otherwise we're all just shooting rounds up into the night sky hoping to hit something. As always check the simple and easy stuff first is my advice.

[Schuster]

Roger, I would have to agree with T.R. in that you need a good starting point. I would check each battery separately as you mentioned you only replaced 1 battery which can be a problem. If one battery has a short in it, it can bring the other one down too. I would have both of the batteries load tested to make sure you have a good starting point. Then after you have insurance that you have good battery power follow the current down to the plugs for spark. If none then it could be a component somewhere in between like the ECU or a fuse. You mentioned that it just had a compression test and all was good. So, that brings us to the fuel. Check you Racor filter/water separator for water. If it was just serviced check to see if the fuel filters were changed out. How old is the fuel? Is it pure gas (non-ethanol) or just regular you filled up at the gas station?
It does sound electrical at this point so that's where I would concentrate my efforts. Good luck.

[roger.lees51@gmail.com]

Thank you all for the reply. Except for pulling the plugs, we tested everything else and everything was okay. I was just hoping to avoid pulling the plugs, but I guess that's next.
Thank you all for the response(s).

[T.R. Bauer]

Keep us in the loop and I hope it is an easy and inexpensive fix

[thataway]

What is the battery voltage (measured with a DVM) at the battery before cranking and when cranking? Also check the voltage at the solenoid when cranking.

Check all of the grounds; take the wires off the post, use a fine SS wire brush and burnish the fitting/post etc and put back on with a wrench. Don't use wing nuts or Nylon nuts on the battery.

[ssobol]

[T.R. Bauer]

[roger.lees51@gmail.com]

Thank you all! If it ever quits raining here (n. ca) I will pull a plug and check for spark. One item I have yet to check is the connection between the batteries and the the motor itself. The cables run under the deck them come out at the stern. They are then connected to the leads to the motor. I had the center console pulled/replaced last year (I put in a new wood deck). They reconnected the cables and if I remember correctly, they wrapped them in either shrink wrap or tape. It's a very dry area but I have never inspected their connection. It's a process of elimination!
Thank you all again!!

[thataway]

The objection of Nyloc nuts is as T.R. Bauer states is that the "nylon" locking material may melt. Genuine Nyloc nuts may be OK--since they have nylon material which has a high melting temperature...I have seen some which did melt at relatively low temperature, and they are most likely a copy of the genuine Nyloc nut. (There are so many nylon insert nuts which are good, and which are bad, it is beyond the scope of this post.). Sticking with known brands, such as Nyloc is important. There are many styles of insert locking nuts--depending on the depth of the steel thread, what material is used, how deep the nut is and amount of metal threaded material in contact with the bolt or stud, the type of base etc.

ABYC is silent on the subject of Nylon insert nuts. However they do call for proper torque of the nut with lock washer. No washer should be the cables (no more than 4), the largest cable at the bottom, and moving up to smallest (consider current draw) at the top. It is permissible and often desirable to put a washer under the locking washer. NO washer should be placed at the bottom, next to the battery case.

The cable fitting "eye" should be the same size as the hole in the flag terminal or in some cases the threaded stud, or threaded insert.

Wing nuts are not allowed on cables greater than 6 gauge in size under ABYC, because they cannot be properly torqued.


The table below shows torque on the nuts for Trojan Batteries. Such tables should be available for every battery. (in reality it is not). The torque on Nylon insert nuts should be "prevailing torque" called for, plus specific torque for that battery.
Prevailing torque, is the force needed to thread the nylon insert nut down, to where it is solidly against the washer between it and the terminals.



How many C Brats are properly torquing their nuts on battery terminals? I do carry a torque wrench (3/8 drive) in my tool kit.

[T.R. Bauer]

Thanks Bob for the very informative posting. I didn't know that 6 gauge recommendation and not using wing nuts. I also bet most folks didn't realize there is a torque recommendation for battery hardware and suspect their nuts are all too tight....LOL...I remember working in the RV industry and wondered what the heck they tightened up their batteries with - probably a 18 inch breaker bar. Overtightening can cause issues.

But back to the original poster - hope you get to the bottom of it and it's not too big of a headache....

[roger.lees51@gmail.com]

Well, we finally got a break in the weather.
Yesterday we pulled a plug and tested for spark and there is none. We have checked all electrical connections (with a meter), by-passed the kill switch, etc,etc,etc. We suspect it is a faulty link in one of the kill switches in the system(low oil, over heating, etc.) but I have no way of by-passing the ignition switch and without a schematic of the electrical system I have no idea what to look for.
My friend who is helping me trouble shoot is a very, very competent electrician who worked in an outboard shop in the past. I think we have gone as far as we can and it's off to the shop, unless someone has a suggestion.
As always, thanks in advance for your replies!

[T.R. Bauer]

Ignition control modules, also called ignitors or CDI units, can and do fail. I've replaced them before, and the way your failure happened, it wouldn't surprise me in the least it just flat out died on you.