Twin Honda 50 feedback needed

[markm]

We are repowering our 22 cruiser and going from Honda 40s to Honda 50s. I would love to hear from those that have done just this and get your thoughts. We have also considered the Suzuki 50s and 60s but I think at this time the Honda is winning out mainly due to local service.

[C-Green]

I have no experience with that switch. I do have 40 twins, are extremely happy with them and my understanding of the 50's from discussions with Les (RIP) is that 50's will have reduced performance in midrange compared to 40's and will only get you one mph (or so) extra top speed at WOT. So his advice was why spend the extra money when you mostly run at midrange. So if you run usually at higher speeds, I would look at twins 60's that at least one Brat has installed and was extremely happy with.

MTCW, Jay

[thataway]

The best Posts on upgrading Honda outboards:are this series by Jay on Hunkydory.. He gives his rational for going from 40 to 60, rather than 50. It is worth a read before deciding on your coarse.

[markm]

[jkidd]

[C-Wolfe]

What is your reason for repowering?

[jkidd]

Who are you asking?

[C-Wolfe]

[markm]

[Hunkydory]

Mark, why the preference of Suzuki over other choices? I’m not down on Suzuki, as I own 2 small Suzuki motors & all I know, who own are overall pleased with them, but as I wrote in the thread about my change from Honda 40’s to 60’s that Bob referenced earlier in this thread, this is why I chose a larger heavier Honda 60 over the lighter other makes including Suzuki.

“I chose Honda BF 60’s over the Suzuki 60’s at Sportscraft Marine, primarily because the 40, 50 & 60hp Suzuki motors are all the same cc with the hp increases coming, I believe more in the higher rpm range & not with torque & hp in the rpm, I would find most useful. The Tohatsu 60 in which I was most interested also had the same cc as the Tohatsu 40 & 50 making it most likely to have the same rpm power responses as the Suzuki, but it’s very low weight made it tempting & if EQ Marine would have been more responsive & the motors readily available it would have likely been my 1st choice.”

Jay

[markm]

[quote="Hunkydory"]Mark, why the preference of Suzuki over other choices? I’m not down on Suzuki, as I own 2 small Suzuki motors & all I know, who own are overall pleased with them, but as I wrote in the thread about my change from Honda 40’s to 60’s that Bob referenced earlier in this thread, this is why I chose a larger heavier Honda 60 over the lighter other makes including Suzuki.

I have read your thread and I am certainly not a engine/hp/ rpm expert. I am just wanting a bit more oomph out of the boat. On a nice flat calm day we go about 18-22mph and not really trusting my gauges I would say we are about 80% of WOT. It would be great to get that up around 22-28mph or 22 with lower rpm on calm water. Is that a reality or am I dreaming?

Cost is also a factor the Honda 50s locally are the same as the Suzuki 60s elsewhere. It seems like I just keep adding $$ but I guess it is a boat after all and the reality is 1k more or less over the next 5 years is not a factor. I would rather select the absolute primo option for this boat and be done with it

Thanks Jay for all your extensive reports. I truly wish I was a bit more in tune with the lingo.

[T.R. Bauer]

I would repower with the 60s and I don't think it matters if it's with Honda or the Suzuki engines as they both have solid reputations. There has been some chatter about small displacement vs large displacement comparisons and longevity, and I think there is some merit to the discussion, but I wouldn't let that drive your decision...there is far more to an engine than simply how much it displaces.

Also, I'm not sure how much outboards even care about being spun up to the max RPMs. Some people think there is twice the wear at 4k than there is at 2k, but that is not accurate and isn't a linear function at all. There is more wear, but it is generally negligible and you might have to scope the cylinder walls and mic the bearings to even measure it after many thousands of hours. I don't spend much time worrying about what RPMs my engines are running.

What I'm trying to say is they are going to last a really long time with proper maintenance while running within their designed parameters. It's only anecdotal, but I have nearly 3 thousand hours on my 30 year old Honda 45s and I have not babied them in that regard at all. If I want to go 30 mph at 6k RPMs, I do it the rare times the seas allow it. And they have spent dang near their whole life running between 4.5-6k RPMs. They don't really burn any oil and have the same performance as they did decades ago. It's probably harder on them to troll for salmon at low RPMs due to the lower operating temperatures and the considerably lower oil PSI you get at only 600 RPMs.

If I were repowering today, I would certainly look really closely at having 60s on the back. I think you'll be happier in the long run with them. Yeah they cost more....and you'll burn more gas because you'll be going faster. But I would gamble that at 25 mph, the gallons per hour will be nearly identical for the 40, 50, or 60 hp engine pushing the same load in the same conditions. Get the 60s.....lol....

[thataway]

I would have absolutely no problem putting 120 hp or two 60 HP engines on the transom of a C Dory 22. Take what NMPI has told you with a grain of salt. On other days-as noted they will say 140 HP. I probably would not put a 150 on the 22.

Here is the link to Federal Code: Here is a link to the Federal code on transoms of small boats.

As you can see, there is nothing in this set of regs, which says that you cannot put 5 hp over the plate (if one is present) hp. There is an objective test of boat handling--specific speeds etc.

If you have a home built boat there are some certain standards.

Weight aft in the boat is an issue.

If you are looking for increased improvement of med range speeds, you may not see much in the power range of 3000 to 4500 RPM in blocks which are similar displacement. The difference is mostly in the valve train, timing, and some ECU changes. . You will see it in the higher from 4500 to 6000 RPM. No problem running a modern outboard at 5500 RPM if that is necessary.

You may use a more efficient prop. Also I suspect you will see slightly better speed and mileage with a fuel injected over the carb version.

I would personally go with the 60's, especially. in view of what you want to obtain in performance, and the upgrades you have done to the boat.

[Foggy]

Check your use.
Check your voyage arena.
Get the right prop(s).
Check the engine weights: twin vs single.
Examine your capability, knowledge and experience.

Go for more vs less horse power; like hiking in cold weather.
You can always reduce but never gain what you don't have.

Aye.

[Hunkydory]