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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20803
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2023 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What loads are you going to be experiencing? The general experience is that 100 watts is not enough to keep up with a chest type freezer/refrig. (See Pat Anderson--2 panels), in Lake Powell area--lots of sun, but hot, PNW not as much sun, but cooler.

I have had good results in an alternate to the Victron 702 volt, amp SOC meter: (Although I used the Victron components on the boat), when I put together a "cheaper" version LIFePO4 system we use in the SUV with a freezer. I. used the
this Amazon volt/amp meter--it was $23, now $44 (although there seems to be another copy in the $36 range).

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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daninPA



Joined: 16 Aug 2020
Posts: 238
City/Region: MOUNT JOY
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 1994
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: NAVIRE
Photos: daninPA
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2023 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We used electrical power (battery only) at a very low draw (stereo, VHF, Garmin 942, iPad charger). I only ran the A/C with the generator.

We still haven't used the frig -- we have a very good cooler that keeps ice overnight through very hot days (the key is to open it rarely! and pack it full!)

My primary interest in the solar panel is maintenance while in the slip and longer times at anchor (to avoid running the engine just to feel good about the state of charge).

My planned setup will allow the addition of another identical panel if we start using the boat differently. But so far we have had no overnights, and when we finally do I think First Mate (and putative CO) will insist on land accommodations -- for the time being.

Smile
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daninPA



Joined: 16 Aug 2020
Posts: 238
City/Region: MOUNT JOY
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 1994
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: NAVIRE
Photos: daninPA
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2023 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
I have had good results in an alternate to the Victron 702 volt, amp SOC meter: (Although I used the Victron components on the boat), when I put together a "cheaper" version LIFePO4 system we use in the SUV with a freezer. I used this Amazon volt/amp meter--it was $23, now $44 (although there seems to be another copy in the $36 range).


Thanks for the recommendation! I have a Fluke Multimeter I plan to use until I install something like this (and replace the $12 power socket voltmeter).
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 3371
City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2023 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daninPA wrote:
... My primary interest in the solar panel is maintenance while in the slip and longer times at anchor (to avoid running the engine just to feel good about the state of charge). ...)


If you have a BMS you don't have to run the motor "just to feel good about the state of charge". You'll know the state of charge and can make an informed decision to run the motor or not.

FWIW, the Norcold fridge that came with my boat only needs about 2.5 amps when the compressor is running. It worked fine when we used it for overnights in the mid-Atlantic region. I did add vents and a small fan to the compartment where the heat exchanger part of the fridge is. This compartment is normally fully enclosed. Don't know if this improves the performance of the fridge or not, but it can't hurt.

Typically, when anchored out I would run the motor for about 20 minutes before bed to top up the battery. If we weren't going anywhere I'd do the same in the morning. Normally all my electric power comes from one Group 24 FLA dual use battery. I have a 2nd battery in reserve that is just there for engine starting.
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daninPA



Joined: 16 Aug 2020
Posts: 238
City/Region: MOUNT JOY
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 1994
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: NAVIRE
Photos: daninPA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2023 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssobol wrote:
If you have a BMS you don't have to run the motor "just to feel good about the state of charge". You'll know the state of charge and can make an informed decision to run the motor or not.

FWIW, the Norcold fridge that came with my boat only needs about 2.5 amps when the compressor is running. It worked fine when we used it for overnights in the mid-Atlantic region. I did add vents and a small fan to the compartment where the heat exchanger part of the fridge is. This compartment is normally fully enclosed. Don't know if this improves the performance of the fridge or not, but it can't hurt.

Typically, when anchored out I would run the motor for about 20 minutes before bed to top up the battery. If we weren't going anywhere I'd do the same in the morning. Normally all my electric power comes from one Group 24 FLA dual use battery. I have a 2nd battery in reserve that is just there for engine starting.



Right -- I thought I mentioned I plan to install a more accurate Battery monitor (I have the cheap power socket voltmeter but want more confidence than $12 part).

I'll have to check on the fridge -- it's what came with the boat when we bought it and we haven't used it yet!
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smckean (Tosca)



Joined: 18 Jan 2014
Posts: 975
City/Region: Guemes Island (Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Tosca
Photos: Tosca
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2023 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone in this thread mentioned that they don't bother charging their batteries with solar panels or a generator, but instead just use the engine alternator because it's fast.

During two consecutive months of cruising last summer I played with this concept. I concluded that recharging via a modern, well designed, high output (20+ amps) battery charger (power supplied via shore power) was preferred.

I think the reason is that a battery charger, using "smart" programming with stages, really tops off the battery well. The alternator only charges in bulk, and doesn't use higher voltages (e.g., 14+ volts) to top off. My batteries held their voltage much longer when charged via the battery charger rather than with the alternator (even if I ran the engine 8 hours that day). True, the alternator was fast, but I concluded it only charged to maybe 80% (or even less) of capacity. Sure the alternator gets the voltage up to 12.6 or even 12.7, but I found that the batteries dropped in voltage much quicker during my at anchor evening use if the batteries were charged up with the alternator rather than when I had used the battery charger on shore power the night before. I suspect that this would also be true if I powered the battery charger with the generator (but it is unlikely that I would ever run the generator long enough).

I don't understand enough about battery chemistry to explain all this, but the results were very noticeable.

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Purchased Tosca in 2014
Re-powered to Yammi 200 in 2015
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DayBreak



Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 845
City/Region: Monmouth, Or.
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 2018
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: DayBreak
Photos: DayBreak
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smckean (Tosca) wrote:
True, the alternator was fast, but I concluded it only charged to maybe 80% (or even less) of capacity. Sure the alternator gets the voltage up to 12.6 or even 12.7, but I found that the batteries dropped in voltage much quicker during my at anchor evening use if the batteries were charged up with the alternator rather than when I had used the battery charger on shore power the night before.

I don't understand enough about battery chemistry to explain all this, but the results were very noticeable.


I found what Sandy mentions to be the same for us while on shorepower and using a smart charger. We often use a 100 watt Renogy Solar Panel https://www.renogy.com/100-watt-12-volt-flexible-monocrystalline-solar-panel/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpPuF--Ws_AIVMwatBh0EyAvZEAQYAiABEgJyAvD_BwE when on buoy or the hook. With using the refrigerator on low setting on a full sunny day, the solar panel keeps our 24 series flooded cell house battery fully charged as if we were using a smart charger and holds the 'better charge overnight'. In using the 100 watt Renogy Solar Panel, make sure you are using the proper solar charge controller, otherwise you may cook your battery.

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DayBreak, 23 Venture, 2018 - present
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daninPA



Joined: 16 Aug 2020
Posts: 238
City/Region: MOUNT JOY
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 1994
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: NAVIRE
Photos: daninPA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2023 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DayBreak wrote:


I found what Sandy mentions to be the same for us while on shorepower and using a smart charger. We often use a 100 watt Renogy Solar Panel https://www.renogy.com/100-watt-12-volt-flexible-monocrystalline-solar-panel/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpPuF--Ws_AIVMwatBh0EyAvZEAQYAiABEgJyAvD_BwE when on buoy or the hook. With using the refrigerator on low setting on a full sunny day, the solar panel keeps our 24 series flooded cell house battery fully charged as if we were using a smart charger and holds the 'better charge overnight'. In using the 100 watt Renogy Solar Panel, make sure you are using the proper solar charge controller, otherwise you may cook your battery.


I bought the same panel and the Renogy MPPT controller. I’m waiting on the inline fuse and extension cable to connect and test the setup in the basement (we have a large window that lets in a bit of sunlight on a sunny day) before installing it on the boat.
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daninPA



Joined: 16 Aug 2020
Posts: 238
City/Region: MOUNT JOY
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 1994
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: NAVIRE
Photos: daninPA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2023 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m encouraged to hear the single 100w panel provided sufficient charge to sustain the refrigerator overnight. Except for anchor light, a small fan, and PED charging I wouldn’t expect much else to require power. I’m planning on testing the load once I put the batteries back on board.
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4545
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DayBreak wrote:
smckean (Tosca) wrote:
True, the alternator was fast, but I concluded it only charged to maybe 80% (or even less) of capacity. Sure the alternator gets the voltage up to 12.6 or even 12.7, but I found that the batteries dropped in voltage much quicker during my at anchor evening use if the batteries were charged up with the alternator rather than when I had used the battery charger on shore power the night before.

I don't understand enough about battery chemistry to explain all this, but the results were very noticeable.


I found what Sandy mentions to be the same for us while on shorepower and using a smart charger. We often use a 100 watt Renogy Solar Panel https://www.renogy.com/100-watt-12-volt-flexible-monocrystalline-solar-panel/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpPuF--Ws_AIVMwatBh0EyAvZEAQYAiABEgJyAvD_BwE when on buoy or the hook. With using the refrigerator on low setting on a full sunny day, the solar panel keeps our 24 series flooded cell house battery fully charged as if we were using a smart charger and holds the 'better charge overnight'. In using the 100 watt Renogy Solar Panel, make sure you are using the proper solar charge controller, otherwise you may cook your battery.


Hi Gary,
Where do you store the solar panel when not in use? I'm thinking seriously of adding 200watts of solar power. This week I'm at Mackinac Island Marina. Great deal in that the marina is still under construction, so not officially open. They are allowing use of about 10 slips along the shore for free, but without power or bath houses. While I've been able to discretely run my generator to bring the batteries back up to a full charge daily, I've been told generator use is not allowed. (I'm playing the C-pap card and need for bringing my batteries back up to a full charge!) So this is one of the rare times solar may have come in very handy. Also, now that I have the composting toilet with the tiny fan, even having the solar available while sitting on the trailer between trips would allow me to skip plugging the boat in. Colby
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