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Flex v Fixed frame Solar panel
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daninPA



Joined: 16 Aug 2020
Posts: 238
City/Region: MOUNT JOY
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 1994
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: NAVIRE
Photos: daninPA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 6:37 pm    Post subject: Flex v Fixed frame Solar panel Reply with quote

I just received a set of Renogy 100w solar panels — 1 rigid frame, 1 flexible (order mistake. — one will go back).

But now that I have the flexible panel I am considering keeping it and mounting it on the roof with industrial strength Velcro. That way I can remove it for transport or whenever it’s not required.

But the flex panels are shorter lived and apparently not as effective.

Thoughts?
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pcg



Joined: 31 Aug 2018
Posts: 405
City/Region: Sherwood
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Quest
Photos: pcg
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've attended two seminars (pre-Covid) given by Jeff Cote of Pacific Yacht Systems and in both he raved about flexible panels, but he also stated that if you want quality you have to pay top dollar. At that time the flex panels he was discussing were made in Italy I believe.

At that time I was considering making my C-Dory into a hightop (along with other modifications I'm doing during a restoration project) so that I could store several thin flex panels in the cabin ceiling when not being used. I've since abandoned that idea after Will Prowse has started testing flex panels. He states that they are very fragile, prone to damage by handling, and cannot dissipate heat well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onMZ_dRSFUs

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Peter & Judy



Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 546
City/Region: Olds
State or Province: AB
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Mistaya
Photos: Mistaya
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have two sets of solar panels on Mistaya. Mounted on the radar arch are 2 10w hard panels, they are always in place mostly used as a battery maintainer. I also have two 30 w flexible panels that I tie on as necessary, mostly on top of my kayaks. Mistaya almost always has two kayaks on the roof. When I remove the kayaks, I simply tie the flexible panels to the roof hand rails. They are light and effective. I have also purchased a 50 square panel that I plan to mount on the Bowmar Hatch above the v-berth. I haven't quite decided how I am going to mount it there. This would give me a total of about 130 watts of solar capacity. I like to flexible panels as they are light, easy to store and remove.
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daninPA



Joined: 16 Aug 2020
Posts: 238
City/Region: MOUNT JOY
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 1994
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: NAVIRE
Photos: daninPA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pcg wrote:
I've attended two seminars (pre-Covid) given by Jeff Cote of Pacific Yacht Systems and in both he raved about flexible panels, but he also stated that if you want quality you have to pay top dollar. At that time the flex panels he was discussing were made in Italy I believe.

At that time I was considering making my C-Dory into a hightop (along with other modifications I'm doing during a restoration project) so that I could store several thin flex panels in the cabin ceiling when not being used. I've since abandoned that idea after Will Prowse has started testing flex panels. He states that they are very fragile, prone to damage by handling, and cannot dissipate heat well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onMZ_dRSFUs


This is helpful, thanks!

The flexible panel certainly does not feel as substantial, but would the rigid frame be more or less subject to damage from bouncing across the waves?
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Captain Starbucks



Joined: 20 Oct 2011
Posts: 57
City/Region: Tacoma
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Photos: Captain Starbucks
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On my previous boat, I installed a single 175 watt panel to recharge my bow mounted 36 volt trolling motor via a Trollbridge. I can't compare what I had to a rigid panel, but I can say it worked quite well with my Renogy Smart controller and smart shunt. The system charged up my 3 x 12 volt 65 Amp hour lithium iron phosphate batteries. I'm hoping to install the system on my TomCat soon.

I wasn't sure about the mounting location on my previous boat so I installed the panel temporarily on the cabin roof with aluminum tape. It turned into the permanent location but the tape worked so good I just left it. I towed the boat at freeway speeds many times for hours at a time. No issues.

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2001 Shamrock Mackinaw 270 - Sold 2022
2012 Ranger Tug 25 - Sold 2014
1996 20' Wooldridge Xtra Plus - Sold 2012
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daninPA



Joined: 16 Aug 2020
Posts: 238
City/Region: MOUNT JOY
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 1994
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: NAVIRE
Photos: daninPA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pcg wrote:
At that time I was considering making my C-Dory into a hightop (along with other modifications I'm doing during a restoration project) so that I could store several thin flex panels in the cabin ceiling when not being used. I've since abandoned that idea after Will Prowse has started testing flex panels. He states that they are very fragile, prone to damage by handling, and cannot dissipate heat well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onMZ_dRSFUs


Very helpful link — thank you!

I’m leaning towards returning the flex panel and keeping the 100w regular size panel. I have rotor rails so I think the best option will be running the panel across the roof suspended on supports that are mounted to the grab rail. I can put some cutout PVC blocks midway to provide additional support and vibration dampening.

We have a Honda generator on board for the roof mounted A/C unit (which we used once this season). I haven’t yet figured out how to use the generator to top off the batteries (though I suppose I could just plugin my C-Tek battery charger to the AC outlet).
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 3362
City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daninPA wrote:
... We have a Honda generator on board for the roof mounted A/C unit (which we used once this season). I haven’t yet figured out how to use the generator to top off the batteries (though I suppose I could just plugin my C-Tek battery charger to the AC outlet).


I have a Honda 1000 generator for running my AC when shore power is not available. I have found that running the outboard at about 1000RPM will charge the batteries a whole lot faster than the generator can. 1000rpm is much quieter than idle due to resonance of the boat interior.
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daninPA



Joined: 16 Aug 2020
Posts: 238
City/Region: MOUNT JOY
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 1994
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: NAVIRE
Photos: daninPA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="ssobol"
I have a Honda 1000 generator for running my AC when shore power is not available. I have found that running the outboard at about 1000RPM will charge the batteries a whole lot faster than the generator can. 1000rpm is much quieter than idle due to resonance of the boat interior.[/quote]

Interesting. What do use to ascertain the battery charge status? I have a simple voltmeter display plugged into the power adapter but I’m sure it’s not adequate…
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have a simple voltmeter display plugged into the power adapter but I’m sure it’s not adequate…


There’s almost always something better & usually more complicated. The simple digital voltage reader, plugged into my otherwise not used cigarette lighter plug has worked well the last 20 years for us for monitoring the charge of the two batteries. I alternate running the twin motors at displacement speed, while also switching between the two batteries for the house. With the change from twin 40’s to 60’s, I’ve doubled my alternator output, so now very seldom need to bump up the charge, while anchoring with my Honda 2000 gen. In fact, the generator now is pretty much solely for a ceramic heater back up in case the Wallas or alternator should fail. Towards the end of last summers SE Alaska cruise the old 12v digital reader failed & I sure missed it.

Jay

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daninPA



Joined: 16 Aug 2020
Posts: 238
City/Region: MOUNT JOY
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 1994
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: NAVIRE
Photos: daninPA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hunkydory wrote:
Quote:
I have a simple voltmeter display plugged into the power adapter but I’m sure it’s not adequate…


There’s almost always something better & usually more complicated. The simple digital voltage reader, plugged into my otherwise not used cigarette lighter plug has worked well the last 20 years for us for monitoring the charge of the two batteries. I alternate running the twin motors at displacement speed, while also switching between the two batteries for the house. With the change from twin 40’s to 60’s, I’ve doubled my alternator output, so now very seldom need to bump up the charge, while anchoring with my Honda 2000 gen. In fact, the generator now is pretty much solely for a ceramic heater back up in case the Wallas or alternator should fail. Towards the end of last summers SE Alaska cruise the old 12v digital reader failed & I sure missed it.

Jay


So true!

What voltage did you expect to see and at what point did you starup the engines or generator?

I’ve read all sorts of proclamations that this voltage means the battery is being overcharged, that voltage means the battery is 75% discharged…

Is there w widely accepted and demonstrated rule?
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Marco Flamingo



Joined: 09 Jul 2015
Posts: 1154
City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Limpet
Photos: Limpet
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a couple of flexible solar panels on a yurt for years. They got blown around, pitch on them, and mistreated. Still worked fine when I gave them away. I was impressed.

I put a flexible solar panel on the Limpet using SNADs. It is a small panel and is attached with only 4 SNADs. No drilling through the cabin top. By putting a stick-on rubber furniture pad on the back of the panel, it is held away from the deck, creating an air space and avoiding the problem of flexible panels overheating from lying directly on the deck. I was concerned about whether the SNADs would hold in a stiff wind, but have had no problems on the freeway. Good for sustained 70 mph wind.

Pictures in my photo album under Electrical Stuff - Solar Panel.
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daninPA wrote:
Hunkydory wrote:
Quote:
I have a simple voltmeter display plugged into the power adapter but I’m sure it’s not adequate…


There’s almost always something better & usually more complicated. The simple digital voltage reader, plugged into my otherwise not used cigarette lighter plug has worked well the last 20 years for us for monitoring the charge of the two batteries. I alternate running the twin motors at displacement speed, while also switching between the two batteries for the house. With the change from twin 40’s to 60’s, I’ve doubled my alternator output, so now very seldom need to bump up the charge, while anchoring with my Honda 2000 gen. In fact, the generator now is pretty much solely for a ceramic heater back up in case the Wallas or alternator should fail. Towards the end of last summers SE Alaska cruise the old 12v digital reader failed & I sure missed it.

Jay


So true!

What voltage did you expect to see and at what point did you starup the engines or generator?

I’ve read all sorts of proclamations that this voltage means the battery is being overcharged, that voltage means the battery is 75% discharged…

Is there w widely accepted and demonstrated rule?



If the battery is pretty much fully charged & still connected to the running motor’s alternator or genset, mine will normally read out between 13.4 to 14.7v & will slowly climb to that if voltage is low & then begin charging. After shutting off whatever’s charging & the battery without a load it will drop to about 12.7v if fully charged. When not being charged & no or very low load, I don’t like my AGM batteries to drop below 12.3v though supposedly 12.2v is the 50% discharge recommended not to exceed.

If I’m putting the batteries under a heavy load, like when using the windless, then I will either combine the batteries or run both motors.

There’s good reasons for those who have onboard frig/freezer, lithium or other more complicated usage, perhaps such as solar, using the upgraded battery monitoring systems or for that matter those who just like to see the discharge rates & other data, the more complicated systems show. As for me & others who have basic set ups, the simple voltage readout is all that’s really needed. On my first three extended cruises to remote areas, all I had to monitor the batteries was the alternator gauges & a small handheld multimeter.

Jay
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daninPA wrote:
ssobol wrote:
I have a Honda 1000 generator for running my AC when shore power is not available. I have found that running the outboard at about 1000RPM will charge the batteries a whole lot faster than the generator can. 1000rpm is much quieter than idle due to resonance of the boat interior.


Interesting. What do use to ascertain the battery charge status? I have a simple voltmeter display plugged into the power adapter but I’m sure it’s not adequate…


I have a BMS that shows current in/out of the battery. The motor at 1K RPM can put about 30 amps into the battery.
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Pat Anderson



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have 200 watts of solar in rigid panels on Daydream's roof. We also have a 2000 watt Wen generator. Our largest load is an ARB freezer. So far, the combination of the engine while cruising and the solar have been more than adequate on our 2017 Great Loop, at Lake Powell, and in the San Juan Islands. We did need to run the generator when we were sitting out some protracted periods of bad weather on the Loop when we were not able to cruise, but that was about the only time.


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daninPA



Joined: 16 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2023 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has been a helpful discussion — thank you!

I am sending the flexible panel back.

Current plan Is to mount the single panel on the roof using vibration-dampening bolt-on feet secured with Velcro to the roof, with shock cord running to each grab rail and to the radar arch.

I don’t intend to tow with the panel mounted in this position.
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