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ATPNW
Joined: 26 Jul 2020 Posts: 71 City/Region: Covington
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Fellowship
Photos: Fellowship
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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:19 am Post subject: Overheating Outboard on Flushing Muffs |
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So I just got back from a week long outing at Sekiu. The twin BF50's are still running great. Upon getting home and flushing the port motor, the over heating alarm went off. I was in the cabin and was able to turn off the motor within a second or two. I had a helper out back of the boat who confirmed there was a stream of water coming from the tell tale (although it could have been a weak stream). I was able to get out of the boat, re-adjust the muffs and fired it back up with no more alarm the rest of the time (maybe a minute or two longer). My concern is that when i was done, i noticed the mid section of that outboard was hot. It was more than what i would consider warm, but not hot enough that i couldnt keep my hand there if i wanted. My questions are:
1. Should I have waited longer before restarting the motor after the alarm went off?
2. What should I be inspecting to see if I caused any damage due to overheating?
I suspect there wasnt enough clamping pressure on the flushing muffs, causing the boat to have an insufficent amount of water for cooling. |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20829 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Most likely no damage. The item initially would be the water pump impeller . It is rubber and if no water to lube it, then it may overheat and fail. But since the motor did well after the re-adjustment, and there was some "pee" stream, not likely there was damage.
The impeller should be changed if a decreased Pee and not due to obstruction, at about every 200 hours or every 3 years. I know of some which have lasted 8 years, and others which have failed in less than 50 hours,.
The engine itself should be fine. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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ATPNW
Joined: 26 Jul 2020 Posts: 71 City/Region: Covington
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Fellowship
Photos: Fellowship
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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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thataway wrote: | Most likely no damage. The item initially would be the water pump impeller . It is rubber and if no water to lube it, then it may overheat and fail. But since the motor did well after the re-adjustment, and there was some "pee" stream, not likely there was damage.
The impeller should be changed if a decreased Pee and not due to obstruction, at about every 200 hours or every 3 years. I know of some which have lasted 8 years, and others which have failed in less than 50 hours,.
The engine itself should be fine. |
Thank you for the quick reply. I am two years since the impellers were last changed.
On a somewhat related note, has anyone come across a good set of muffs for these smaller outboards? I see they make some with a clamp system that goes through the water intake. |
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ssobol
Joined: 27 Oct 2012 Posts: 3382 City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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One thing to consider when using muffs is the water pressure from the hose. Depending on the pressure you have, your impeller may get quite a boost and therefore may not need to work as hard (or at all) and the motor will still be cooled and you get a pee stream. Once you get out on the water, the impeller has to work unassisted and may not be up to the job. |
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ATPNW
Joined: 26 Jul 2020 Posts: 71 City/Region: Covington
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Fellowship
Photos: Fellowship
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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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ssobol wrote: | One thing to consider when using muffs is the water pressure from the hose. Depending on the pressure you have, your impeller may get quite a boost and therefore may not need to work as hard (or at all) and the motor will still be cooled and you get a pee stream. Once you get out on the water, the impeller has to work unassisted and may not be up to the job. |
Thanks, I had read this before too. I typically only turn my faucet about 1/4 fully open. It is had to gauge what amount of pressure that actually equates to. Any tips for finding the sweet spot? |
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C-Wolfe
Joined: 16 Sep 2020 Posts: 259 City/Region: Anchorage
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Valhalla
Photos: C-Wolfe
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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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With the earmuff you also need volume, even more so if you don't have a very tight seal, and that often equal to high pressure. I sometime use a big trash can full of water, so I know all the pressure is from the engine water pump. _________________ Stephan
ValHalla 08 TC255 2024-present
C-Wolfe 22 C-Dory cruiser 2020-24
No Name; Bayliner explorer 26 2012-2015
sparkle; Ericson 25 CB 2008-2012
Sculpin; Drascombe Drifter 2005-2008 |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20829 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I typically only turn my faucet about 1/4 fully open. |
I turn the water fully on. There is some pressure drop, since it is about 75 feet from the hose bib to the motor. Suggested water pressure at the muffs should be about 30 to 40 PSI. Mine is very close to that. There is always some leakage around the sides of the muffs.
Ssobol is right on with the see what the pressure is when you have the boat in the water--with the smaller engines you can usually fit a 5 gallon bucket around the lower unit, and have the hose running into the bucket, to double check the flow.
Also leave the motor at an idle--don't rev it up during "flush". When I have the boat in salt water, then I will use the flushing port (engine not running) and realize that the lower unit and impeller will not get full flushing. |
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colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Posts: 4559 City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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If it's been two years since you last changed your impeller, it might be a good idea to change it again now with the overheat. |
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Wood Zeppelin
Joined: 09 Feb 2016 Posts: 315 City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1997
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: C-Creature
Photos: Childhood Dream
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Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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I've had the hose valve half open before, and not enough water to get a good pee stream. I'd open it fully.
I had this same problem once. The 2006 Honda 9.9 just got back from the shop, in perfect condition, running like a top. The muffs somehow slid out of place a bit. When the alarm went off I had stepped away, but turned it off in about 10-20 seconds. Yes, the motor felt "hot", more than usual. Ever since that incident, it was really hard to start the motor. I tried flushing the carb bowl thru the drain screw with crab cleaner. This worked! The motor ran fine. And then it didn't.. .a few starts later, it didn't want to start again.. "My theory" is the the extra heat somehow loosened up some debris in the fuel system. These motors are notorious hyper-sensitive to anything in the fuel line... I think I have to rebuild the carb now... _________________ James Salay - Real Estate Broker / Investor, Engineer, Artist, Fisherman, Canyoneer, Outdoor Enthusiast
Current boats:
1997 22' Angler - "C-Creature"
1988 16' Angler - "E-fishn-C" (Project boat)
1997 16' Cruiser - "Wet-a-Net"
Also:
14.5' Drift Boat - "Wood Zeppelin" |
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ATPNW
Joined: 26 Jul 2020 Posts: 71 City/Region: Covington
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Fellowship
Photos: Fellowship
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:19 am Post subject: |
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colbysmith wrote: | If it's been two years since you last changed your impeller, it might be a good idea to change it again now with the overheat. |
Probably not a bad idea, I do have a couple replacement kits ready to go. Thanks for everyones comments here. |
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DayBreak
Joined: 16 Jul 2017 Posts: 854 City/Region: Monmouth, Or.
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 2018
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: DayBreak
Photos: DayBreak
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating Outboard on Flushing Muffs |
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ATPNW wrote: | So I just got back from a week long outing at Sekiu. The twin BF50's are still running great. Upon getting home and flushing the port motor, the over heating alarm went off. I was in the cabin and was able to turn off the motor within a second or two. I had a helper out back of the boat who confirmed there was a stream of water coming from the tell tale (although it could have been a weak stream). I was able to get out of the boat, re-adjust the muffs and fired it back up with no more alarm the rest of the time (maybe a minute or two longer). My concern is that when i was done, i noticed the mid section of that outboard was hot. It was more than what i would consider warm, but not hot enough that i couldnt keep my hand there if i wanted. My questions are:
1. Should I have waited longer before restarting the motor after the alarm went off?
2. What should I be inspecting to see if I caused any damage due to overheating?
I suspect there wasnt enough clamping pressure on the flushing muffs, causing the boat to have an insufficent amount of water for cooling. |
Because there was some water flow out of the pee hole, it was probably good to re-start the motor immediately after adjusting the flushing muffs. You may want to inspect the exhaust manifold for cracks but I don't think you will find any.
One thing I noticed is that you took your boat home to flush the motor. I started out using flushing muffs but soon got tired of having to stay with the motor to ensure that the muffs did not slide or fall off. Now I park the boat over my lawn and use a 100 gallon Rubbermaid Stock Tank filled to the rim and flush both the main and kicker at the same time. https://www.rubbermaidcommercial.com/material-handling/farm-garden/stock-tanks/ The motor needs to be in the tank deep enough to cover the cavitation plate. I adjust the pee hole nozzles for overflow to go back into the tank. I attached a 3/4 in. ball valve with a hose thread to drain the tank afterwards while watering the lawn at the same time.
I realize that this method may not be practical or applicable for everyone but if you store your boat at home, this method may be a safe and reliable alternative. _________________ Gary F
DayBreak, 23 Venture, 2018 - present |
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John&Robin
Joined: 18 Aug 2014 Posts: 41 City/Region: Freeland
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1989
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Biscuit (was Wanda Fuca!)
Photos: C-Biscuit
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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When I use muffs I put duct tape over the water intake on the underside of the cavitation plate per the owner's manual. The one time I didn't I got an overheat alarm. Taped it and started back up with no alarm. _________________ John and Robin |
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T.R. Bauer
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 1736 City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Overheating Outboard on Flushing Muffs |
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DayBreak wrote: | ATPNW wrote: | So I just got back from a week long outing at Sekiu. The twin BF50's are still running great. Upon getting home and flushing the port motor, the over heating alarm went off. I was in the cabin and was able to turn off the motor within a second or two. I had a helper out back of the boat who confirmed there was a stream of water coming from the tell tale (although it could have been a weak stream). I was able to get out of the boat, re-adjust the muffs and fired it back up with no more alarm the rest of the time (maybe a minute or two longer). My concern is that when i was done, i noticed the mid section of that outboard was hot. It was more than what i would consider warm, but not hot enough that i couldnt keep my hand there if i wanted. My questions are:
1. Should I have waited longer before restarting the motor after the alarm went off?
2. What should I be inspecting to see if I caused any damage due to overheating?
I suspect there wasnt enough clamping pressure on the flushing muffs, causing the boat to have an insufficent amount of water for cooling. |
Because there was some water flow out of the pee hole, it was probably good to re-start the motor immediately after adjusting the flushing muffs. You may want to inspect the exhaust manifold for cracks but I don't think you will find any.
One thing I noticed is that you took your boat home to flush the motor. I started out using flushing muffs but soon got tired of having to stay with the motor to ensure that the muffs did not slide or fall off. Now I park the boat over my lawn and use a 100 gallon Rubbermaid Stock Tank filled to the rim and flush both the main and kicker at the same time. https://www.rubbermaidcommercial.com/material-handling/farm-garden/stock-tanks/ The motor needs to be in the tank deep enough to cover the cavitation plate. I adjust the pee hole nozzles for overflow to go back into the tank. I attached a 3/4 in. ball valve with a hose thread to drain the tank afterwards while watering the lawn at the same time.
I realize that this method may not be practical or applicable for everyone but if you store your boat at home, this method may be a safe and reliable alternative. |
Great idea - the 50s will fit in a 35 gallon round garbage can as well. I do that a couple times of year just to flush out the salt. At the end of the season, I add salt away for good measure. And if you don't feel like just idling them, because very little water flows through them at idle...just tossing that out there....you can let them rev to your heart's content and really get a good flush because now you basically have a run tank. |
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ATPNW
Joined: 26 Jul 2020 Posts: 71 City/Region: Covington
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Fellowship
Photos: Fellowship
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:34 am Post subject: Re: Overheating Outboard on Flushing Muffs |
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DayBreak wrote: | ATPNW wrote: | So I just got back from a week long outing at Sekiu. The twin BF50's are still running great. Upon getting home and flushing the port motor, the over heating alarm went off. I was in the cabin and was able to turn off the motor within a second or two. I had a helper out back of the boat who confirmed there was a stream of water coming from the tell tale (although it could have been a weak stream). I was able to get out of the boat, re-adjust the muffs and fired it back up with no more alarm the rest of the time (maybe a minute or two longer). My concern is that when i was done, i noticed the mid section of that outboard was hot. It was more than what i would consider warm, but not hot enough that i couldnt keep my hand there if i wanted. My questions are:
1. Should I have waited longer before restarting the motor after the alarm went off?
2. What should I be inspecting to see if I caused any damage due to overheating?
I suspect there wasnt enough clamping pressure on the flushing muffs, causing the boat to have an insufficent amount of water for cooling. |
Because there was some water flow out of the pee hole, it was probably good to re-start the motor immediately after adjusting the flushing muffs. You may want to inspect the exhaust manifold for cracks but I don't think you will find any.
One thing I noticed is that you took your boat home to flush the motor. I started out using flushing muffs but soon got tired of having to stay with the motor to ensure that the muffs did not slide or fall off. Now I park the boat over my lawn and use a 100 gallon Rubbermaid Stock Tank filled to the rim and flush both the main and kicker at the same time. https://www.rubbermaidcommercial.com/material-handling/farm-garden/stock-tanks/ The motor needs to be in the tank deep enough to cover the cavitation plate. I adjust the pee hole nozzles for overflow to go back into the tank. I attached a 3/4 in. ball valve with a hose thread to drain the tank afterwards while watering the lawn at the same time.
I realize that this method may not be practical or applicable for everyone but if you store your boat at home, this method may be a safe and reliable alternative. |
I have considered this, but my question would be - How would you then use Salt Away? Or do you not use it?
Edit: I now see T.R. Bauer's suggestion with the Salt Away. I think ill try to incorporate this. Thanks!
Last edited by ATPNW on Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ATPNW
Joined: 26 Jul 2020 Posts: 71 City/Region: Covington
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Fellowship
Photos: Fellowship
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:36 am Post subject: |
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John&Robin wrote: | When I use muffs I put duct tape over the water intake on the underside of the cavitation plate per the owner's manual. The one time I didn't I got an overheat alarm. Taped it and started back up with no alarm. |
Thanks ill try this next time! |
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