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Transom delaminatioin

 
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mutski



Joined: 16 Apr 2022
Posts: 74
City/Region: Homer
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Just Us
Photos: Just Us
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:33 am    Post subject: Transom delaminatioin Reply with quote

I just got my 2005 22-Cruiser back from the shop after discovering the forward edge of the transom was delaminating... the fiberglass was separating from the foam core. I originally thought I had done the damage, but when I looked at photos from when I bought it in Washington, the crack was already there.

The shop worker told me it's a common problem with production-grade outboard boats. The C-Dory is made from two fiberglass molds, one for the hull and one for the top-sides. The joint between the two pieces runs down the top of the transom, where in my boat, they are sandwiched around a piece of medium-density closed-cell foam. The gaps were filled with putty, the top of the transom faired, and the black plastic trim hid the joint. It's a weak spot, because the two pieces aren't fiberglassed together. He said it's likely the torque of the bouncing outboard motor pulled the layers apart when the trailered boat hit bumps in the road.

He said he found minimal water intrusion, and the transom was still structurally sound. He removed the plastic trim, filled the voids with a pint of fiberglass resin, put three layers of fiberglass over the top of the transom, then painted it black to mimic the plastic trim.

I feel l like a C-Brats weenie for hiring someone else to do the work. But we've entered the rainy season here, and I have neither a dry place to work nor the tools nor the experience. I just wanted it done so I could keep on playing. Hopefully, it's stronger than when it left the factory. I want to go halibut fishing on the next nice day!











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Andesite



Joined: 27 Feb 2021
Posts: 21
City/Region: Anchorage
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Ski-Dory
Photos: Ski-Dory
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2022 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like he did a great job. Was it Tim at TNT Marine in Homer by chance? He looked my C-Dory before I bought it.
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pcg



Joined: 31 Aug 2018
Posts: 417
City/Region: Sherwood
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Quest
Photos: pcg
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2022 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I've learned this is a weak spot on C-Dorys with the black plastic cap. I've found similar on my '99 22 Cruiser and, barring the plywood core needing more than minimal repair, I plan to grind off the top (previous owner had applied epoxy over the joint), feather the sides, then lay a fiberglass cap over everything. I had intended to also replace the black plastic cap to give added protection, but the factory no longer uses the cap. They now seal the joint with fiberglass, as it should be. I suspect that many of the boats with the black plastic cap may show similar.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 21375
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The shop worker told me it's a common problem with production-grade outboard boats. The C-Dory is made from two fiberglass molds, one for the hull and one for the top-sides. The joint between the two pieces runs down the top of the transom, where in my boat, they are sandwiched around a piece of medium-density closed-cell foam. The gaps were filled with putty, the top of the transom faired, and the black plastic trim hid the joint. It's a weak spot, because the two pieces aren't fiberglassed together. He said it's likely the torque of the bouncing outboard motor pulled the layers apart when the trailered boat hit bumps in the road.


This is mostly correct. There is fiberglass on both sides of the core of the transom--the fiberglass for the deck house, cockpit, gunnels etc is placed on top of the hull. all through the boat, and then glassed on the inside to make one of the strongest hull to deck joints in the industry. In the case of the 22, it is the spashwell glass, should be next to the inner layer of the hull. Then there should be a fiberglass wrap over the top of the cap--and some of the boats are made this way.

I would have used epoxy resin for the Joining of the splash well molded part and the inner glass of the transom because of its better secondary bond. If there was any void, then glass fibers/thickening compound should be included. If indeed the foam core had separated, then there was some failure of the core to inner glass of the transom bond. What you have done will work fine.

2005 was the high output time of the Reynold's ownership of C Dory, and there were some minor quality control issues. There may have been some short cuts. I have dealt with this issue on two of the C Dory 25's. More recently I worked on a boat where the fiberglass of the splash well was formed with about 1/4" void between the 1/4" thick glass of the splash well, and the inside layers of fiberglass of the transom. The 1/4" glass had been crushed, and it appeared as if there were a transom failure. The transom was fine. I filled this 1/4 void with multiple layers of 6 oz cloth and epoxy resin. This made the joint stronger than when the boat was built. At the same time I removed core around the motor mount bolt holes of the transom, and filled this with thickened epoxy. Now the pressure of the bolts (I made a new bar of 3/8" thick aluminum about 3" wide between both upper bolts, which spreads the load out over a much wider area.

I would not blame only road trips--there are multiple forces on the transom when the boat is underway, especially when going into chop. Would a "transom saver" (a spring loaded bar which supports the lower leg of the motor when trailering have prevented this?--I do not believe so.). I have used that, the rubber blocks which go over the supporting hydraulic cylinders for the trim/tilt, or a solid block of wood between the motor mount bolted to the transom and the mount on the engine side of the horizontal pivot point.

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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mutski



Joined: 16 Apr 2022
Posts: 74
City/Region: Homer
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Just Us
Photos: Just Us
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2022 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff Sinn of Morris Marine in Homer did the repair. He did thicken the resin he poured into the voids. We talked about epoxy as a quick fix, but concluded a few layers of glass over the top of the transom would be more likely to last. Interesting that C-Dory has dropped the plastic trim. A layer of glass is certainly a better idea. I also asked him about the transom saver. His opinion was that the boat and trailer flex and move so much on the road that it's probably not much help.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 21375
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mutski wrote:
Jeff Sinn of Morris Marine in Homer did the repair. He did thicken the resin he poured into the voids. We talked about epoxy as a quick fix, but concluded a few layers of glass over the top of the transom would be more likely to last. Interesting that C-Dory has dropped the plastic trim. A layer of glass is certainly a better idea. I also asked him about the transom saver. His opinion was that the boat and trailer flex and move so much on the road that it's probably not much help.


The use of epoxy is not a "quick fix". You should use glass and epoxy. The secondary bonding of epoxy is stronger,Good discussion here. There are some very interesting points about currently used polyester resins vs what was used in the past, .
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Alaskadory



Joined: 08 Aug 2022
Posts: 5
City/Region: Sitka
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Beachcomber
Photos: Beachcomber
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How was the black trim taken off? Is it glued on?
I also have a 2005 and have been wondering what’s under that trim.. I did a similar repair to my Boston whaler transom that had started to separate.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 21375
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2022 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alaskadory wrote:
How was the black trim taken off? Is it glued on?
I also have a 2005 and have been wondering what’s under that trim.. I did a similar repair to my Boston whaler transom that had started to separate.


in my experience the black plastic strip was "glued on", with the ubiquitous Bostec adhesive sealer used on many parts of the boat. I put it back with Boat Life Life Seal. This hybrid adhesive,/ sealant is a silicone/urethane compound and works well with plastics.
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mutski



Joined: 16 Apr 2022
Posts: 74
City/Region: Homer
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Just Us
Photos: Just Us
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alaskadory wrote:
How was the black trim taken off? Is it glued on?
I also have a 2005 and have been wondering what’s under that trim.. I did a similar repair to my Boston whaler transom that had started to separate.


I'll have to assume Thataway is correct since I did not do the removal. The boat shop did get my cap off in one piece.

Before you start ripping and tearing... I could tell I had a problem because there was an open crack at the inside of the plastic cap. When I got to looking, I could feel the top few inches of fiberglass inside the splash well move when I tapped it. I'm not sure I'd go exploring unless I found indications of a problem.

I'm surprised this happened to your Boston Whaler. I always thought those were indestructable. I guess I should know better.

Good luck!
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T.R. Bauer



Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 1808
City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The old boats like mine don't even have the plastic cap. I'm glad you were able to get it repaired during this season. Everyone is so stinking busy!
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