The C-Brats Forum Index
HomeForumsMy TopicsCalendarEvent SignupsMemberlistOur C-DorysThe Brat MapPhotos

Are all years of 22 CDs capable of running twin outboards?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> All C-Dorys, All The Time
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jmbfish



Joined: 04 Jul 2022
Posts: 8
City/Region: Portland
State or Province: OR
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:47 pm    Post subject: Are all years of 22 CDs capable of running twin outboards? Reply with quote

Sorry if this has been covered before - I couldn't think of good way to search for this.

I am looking a used 22 and want to either find one w twins or re-power what we buy and it seems like all the newer boats are running singles. Just checking to see if there are any issues repowering the newer boats?

Don't want to open "the debate" on this Very Happy ....

The only downside I see is reducing access to the water but that seems like an issue regardless given the lack of a swim platform...

Thanks in advance!

John
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 3362
City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on why you want twins. For maneuverability at low speeds, twins can't be beat.

For redundancy, it may be a toss up. Modern outboards are very reliable. Having twins may increase your operating costs for what may be a negligible benefit.

You've already mentioned one downside of twins, the limitation on a swim step. On my single 22 I added a swim step so I have one on either side of the engine. Probably my most favorite mod to the boat.

Depends on where you boat and your personal comfort level. Also keep in mind that a fuel quality issue can take out both your engines and leave you in no better state than a boat with a single engine. Plus double the costs to get the engines sorted out after such a mishap.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
srbaum



Joined: 30 Aug 2010
Posts: 875
City/Region: Portsmouth
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition to the comments made by ssobol, twins don't provide the total horsepower output of the stated/rated HP. This is due to drag, created by dragging two outboard lower units through the water.
I like ssbbol have swim platforms, with pull out ladders on both side of my 26 and also on my previous 22. I really appreciated this, in addition to the ability to get in or out of the water, also to access the outboard, while the boat is on the lift, or in the water, for maintenance and changing the prop...

_________________
Steve Baum
Homeport of Portsmouth, VA
OSPREY (Ex Mister Sea) 2000 22 C-Dory 2010 - Sold 3/19
OSPREY (Ex ADITI) 2007 26 Cape Cruiser 2018
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jmbfish



Joined: 04 Jul 2022
Posts: 8
City/Region: Portland
State or Province: OR
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the quick replies. If I don't have twins I would add a kicker so I am probably SOL w regards to dual swim platforms regardless?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cbbernard



Joined: 26 Aug 2021
Posts: 53
City/Region: Wakefield
State or Province: RI
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SEA STORY
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On my single engine 22, I have a swim step to port and sufficient room for a kicker to starboard. (It's on my list, and that list be long.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
robhwa



Joined: 04 Dec 2013
Posts: 272
City/Region: Anderson Island
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Marcia C
Photos: Problemadela
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more potential disadvantage of twins, though I only know of this happening once here at Anderson Island with our ambulance boat when they ran across a bar at high speed. You normally run both twins at high speed, so two lower units down. If you hit something hard you can damage both, and have no backup. This did happen here, and they had to paddle to the dock. You normally keep the kicker up when running a single main motor. Thus, if you hit something, you can get home with the kicker.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jmbfish



Joined: 04 Jul 2022
Posts: 8
City/Region: Portland
State or Province: OR
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting about damaging both motors - had not thought of that. Having run boats w singles and twins i really like the twins. Our boat now is an I/O and catches a lot of wind so docking can strain the marriage at times...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 3362
City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmbfish wrote:
... Our boat now is an I/O and catches a lot of wind so docking can strain the marriage at times...


This can be mitigated by sufficient practice and by having a confident line handler.

You can make a perfect approach and have the whole thing go south if the line handler can't/doesn't get hooked up to the dock when the right moment presents itself.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jim-in-delaware



Joined: 24 Aug 2022
Posts: 9
City/Region: Southern
State or Province: DE
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What size kicker is usually sufficient to use as a get home motor on a C-22?
_________________
looking for my retirement boat!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
DayBreak



Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 838
City/Region: Monmouth, Or.
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 2018
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: DayBreak
Photos: DayBreak
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jim-in-delaware wrote:
What size kicker is usually sufficient to use as a get home motor on a C-22?


We have a Suzuki 9.9 with the lowest pitched prop. Pushes the boat at about 5.5 Knots. If one fishes hours on end while trolling like we do, the smaller kicker motor is nice. We use a tie rod attached to the main from the kicker and so we can maneuver the boat from inside the cabin even with autopilot.

_________________
Gary F
DayBreak, 23 Venture, 2018 - present
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 7444
City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmbfish wrote:
interesting about damaging both motors - had not thought of that. Having run boats w singles and twins i really like the twins. Our boat now is an I/O and catches a lot of wind so docking can strain the marriage at times...


I have run commercial boats with single engine diesels, twins, and one with 3 engines. Damage potential exists regardless of the number of engines. Twins are great for low speed maneuvering, but you can expect twice the amount of upkeep and maintenance.

When we bought our C-Dory 25, we ordered it with a single and used a small outboard that we could use on an articulating bracket or as the motor for the dinghy; never had to use it as the "get-home motor." Modern outboards are reliable when maintained.

As to your comment about your current boat "catches a lot of wind," the cabin on C-Dorys is a big part of what makes them so capable... it is also a lot of boat above the waterline that is affected by wind. My wife is a great hand on a boat, but we always made it a point to discuss what to expect as we made our way to a dock, even our own dock at home. Wind, weather, and water make each arrival unique. Twins can be more maneuverable, but practice with a single will teach you more options for a competent arrival.

Good luck with your search.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
SENSEI



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 1067
City/Region: Stanwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1995
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: SENSEI
Photos: SENSEI and SERENITY
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As to your question, no, not all can have twin motors. The clasics (pree 1988) do not have a wide transom. Not roomfor twins
_________________
Roger on the "SENSEI"
1983 22 Classic (acquired 1995)
1995 25 Cruiseship (sold 2012)
1993 22 Cruiser (sold 2014)
1995 22 Angler (acquired 2016)
1983 22 Classic (sold 2017)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20779
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can have two swim steps and a single kicker. There is a bracket made with fits on a swim step, and that is the way I mount my "Kicker" on the Caracal 18 Center console Cat. I don't readily find the link to one. It is basically a piece of Starboard, which has aluminum box tapering to the deck and mounted with 4 5/16 bolts thru the swim platform. It stands about 6" high on the outer part of the swim step. I can leave my Suzuki 2.5 hp outboard there, and is OK when on plane, pulled all of the way up. Displacement speeds it drags a little of the lower unit. The motor only weighs 30# so it can be fairly easily moved from some point in the boat and then the screw clamps tightened to the motor mount.

I have used small kickers--they can give steerage way, but not agains really heavy winds.. However in most cases it will get you to a protected area. Other engines used: Mercury 3.5 HP 2 stroke, and Torqeedo electric outboard (supposedly 3 HP equivalent). In calm water any of these will give 3 knots of boat speed. I like the Suzuki 4 stroke, since it uses gas with no oil added. Simple and easy to run.

I like to tell the story that my dad had a 1932 (?) five HP Johnson OB, which would push his 26' sailboat (hull very similar to C Dory 25, (flat "arc" bottom, no dead rise, hard chine and a trunk cabin a little lower than the C Dory. The boat had 30' Mast, and a 4' fin keel, so it probably had more air and water drag than the C Dory 25. It would push the boat at over 5 knots. After many years this motor gave out, so my dad bought a Evinrude 9.9 hp outboard, and it would push the boat no faster than the older 5 (which had a bigger prop and lower gear ratio). We would routinely go to Catalina when there was no wind, with this 5 hp motor (about 30 miles in 6 hours)

_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
clayhubler



Joined: 03 Aug 2019
Posts: 280
City/Region: La Center
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hammerhead
Photos: Hammerhead
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

robhwa wrote:
One more potential disadvantage of twins, though I only know of this happening once here at Anderson Island with our ambulance boat when they ran across a bar at high speed. You normally run both twins at high speed, so two lower units down. If you hit something hard you can damage both, and have no backup. This did happen here, and they had to paddle to the dock. You normally keep the kicker up when running a single main motor. Thus, if you hit something, you can get home with the kicker.


This is an excellent point that people don't bring up often enough. I actually sought out a twin engine boat because it made me (and the wife) feel more secure. But afterward, I realized that is a false sense of security. The previous owner of our boat had to replace both lower units right before selling the boat because he hit a rock. He was actually taking the boat out after it had sat awhile to make sure everything was good and ready to sell. He had to get a tow back to the dock. I also ran aground in florida last year and chewed up both props, but not so bad that I wasn't able to motor back at slow speed.

ssobol wrote:
Also keep in mind that a fuel quality issue can take out both your engines and leave you in no better state than a boat with a single engine.


For this reason I plumbed each motor to draw from it's own tank. I once had seawater get into the gas tank on my last boat, and I was very glad that the kicker had it's own fuel tank. I made the fuel lines long enough that I can swap them in case one motor goes down from a mechanical issue and I need all the fuel for some reason.

The twins are nice for maneuverability, but I think you would have more redundancy running a single and a kicker for the above reasons.

To answer your question though, I don't see any reason you couldn't put twins on a single engine boat, but you would have to seal and repair the holes left from the old engine mounts. Possible you may need to relocate the drain hole in the splashwell also.

This isn't my boat but I found this picture

_________________
Clay on Hammerhead
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before the last 20 years & 25,000 miles of cruising in our CD22 with twin motors, of which, many of those miles were in areas, where a vhf radio was not going to obtain help if needed, we explored some very remote areas in Alaska, British Columbia & the Yukon & Northwest Territories, alone with a single motor on a 12.5 foot inflatable boat. We never had a problem of any kind with that motor & the only back up was a set of oars & so yes, even 20+ years ago, outboards had become very dependable, but not entirely so, as myself & many others have experienced. When JoLee & I were out cruising in areas like the open to the Gulf of Alaska’s west side of Chichagof Island alone & in close to shore areas, where companies like Boat Tow US doesn’t exist & the likelihood of even making contact with some other boat via VHF radio slim to none, we sure felt more comfortable with the twins & especially now with the twin 60’s, then if I had a single with a small kicker. The single spare 40 to 60 hp motor, though maybe not enough to plane the boat, will still have the power & torque to keep control of the CD22 in any except the most extreme conditions way beyond a small kickers capability.

On this years past group Alaska cruise none of us had actual motor failure, but we did multiple times have kelp or other debris cut off cooling water causing a temporary motor shutdown with varying time needed to clear & have motor running again. If this was to happen in the many different times I’ve been in places where no boat control or poor boat control for just seconds could have been disastrous. Fortunately this only occurred once in a critical situation this year & that was after the group had separated & I was boating solo. In this instance, I was entering Piehle Passage from the Gulf of Alaska on the outside wilderness area of Chichagof Island in somewhat rough seas with poor visibility. There was a slightly below zero tide at the time creating steeper than normal swells for conditions & some breaking in the narrowest part of the 40 foot deep channel between where they were breaking on the rocks & even shallower areas on either side. I was confident enough even in these conditions to film video, up until, I saw kelp all the way across, directly in front. In the video, when I say “that’s not good-I have to put the camera down” is when I first noticed the kelp. In trying to avoid the kelp, but still getting into it, I got off line to far to port & was very close to the waves breaking over the rocks there. At this time the starboard motor quit with a overheat alarm & the port prop lost thrust due to being wrapped in kelp. I was able to quickly with a reverse clear the kelp from the port prop giving me control back enough to get clear of the breaking water over the rocks, while I cleared the debris blocking the intake off the starboard motor with a turn off restart & reverse. If I had a main motor & kicker & the main overheated & shutdown like my starboard twin did, there likely would not have been enough time to have it running under power again or engaging a kicker before being in the breaking water & rocks. As it was, I almost immediately cleared the kelp off the port twin giving power & control to stay off the rocks, while I got the other twin back running & then quickly got on the backside of a swell & stayed there to calm water. Unfortunately videos do not do justice in showing the swells. In the video the waves just look like bouncy sea conditions as I’m heading into the kelp. The kelp being there in that quantity is still mystifying to me, as I’ve been through this entryway many times over the years & this year just a month or so earlier with the group & no kelp in the entryway at all.

If interested in seeing the short video, it’s in my last C-Brat Album, SE Alaska solo cruise 2022. Last video on page one, titled, Piehle Passage not good.

To each there own, as for me, twins it is & will continue to be.

Jay

_________________
Jay and Jolee 2000 22 CD cruiser Hunkydory
I will not waste my days in trying to prolong them------Jack London
https://share.delorme.com/JuliusByers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> All C-Dorys, All The Time All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
     Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum



Page generation time: 0.1527s (PHP: 63% - SQL: 37%) - SQL queries: 34 - GZIP disabled - Debug on