25/26 vs 22 in rough waters

hardee · Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:29 pm Post subject:

On SleepyC I have an 1100 Rule-Mate in the forward cockpit bilge, and a 1500 Rule-Mate in the aft sunken dish bilge. On one crossing of Juan de Fuca, I apparently bumped my bilge switch off the auto position with my knee. When I realized that, I had about 8 inches at the aft wall of the cockpit. I was running about 7-8 knots in forward port quartering seas with a stiff 15+ breeze so the cockpit was loading with splash/spray from the waves. It took about 1 minute to empty. Boat sure felt better. Laughing

ME TOO

And Yes, I have smooth bore hoses.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

JamesTXSD · Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:43 pm Post subject:

If the rear deck on a boat is pooped, you need to move that water now. An 800 gph pump, if everything (including the hose) was at max efficiency, would move about 13 gallons per minute. Not much, not very fast.

That said, we had Wild Blue in a lot of conditions during the years, and getting any water in the cockpit was extremely rare.

We only had the 25, not the 22, but in traveling with a couple C-Dory groups, it seemed to me that the additional one ton of weight, more waterline, and beam of the 25 provided a better ride than the 22 at the same speeds. I agree that 2' chop would have us slow down, but the 22 would need to slow even more to get a similar ride.

For us, slowing down wasn't an issue... go for the best ride or fuel efficiency vs making miles.

The only time our scuppers were underwater was while tied to the dock with 7 adults in the cockpit (under the cover of our camperback to get out of the weather). Yes, it was a crowd.

thataway · Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:00 am Post subject:

Marco Flamingo · Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:02 pm Post subject:

Those actual GPH numbers are why I have a 2000 GPH pump with smooth wall hose in my CD 16. I figure that gets me a realistic 600 GPH, about the same rate I could do with a bucket (probably not for an hour). For a serious wave over the stern, GPH likely won't help. I would have to rely on PFD and DSC.

C-Slug · Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:18 pm Post subject:

Thanks for all the replies! Really appreciate the knowledge here and kindness to share.
Colby, I will be installing a second bilge on our boat too, just in case the primary ever gives out.
As for the scuppers on the 25, I figured you'd have to be up and moving for those to work, which makes some sense. What doesn't make sense is that when you stop to go fishing or spend the night they will fill up with water! I'm never going to remember to put the plugs back in before slowing down.
To be clear, I'm in the Santa Barbara Channel routinely with our 22. On a good day, it's a breeze. On an OK day it's still fun. But when you get wind and mixed swell at a few feet, plus the following (longer period) groundswell on the way home, it's less fun. It's a lot to rely on NOAA forecast to get right. I've been out a couple of times where I thought, "10 more knots of wind and two more feet of swell and I'd be challenged." These were days predicted to be relatively calm.
Sum total, sounds like a 25 gives a smoother ride (and a bathroom option). But not necessarily more peace of mind.

C-Wolfe · Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:51 pm Post subject:

thataway · Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 9:03 pm Post subject:

The amount of drainage, or where the scuppers were located are different in different boats. My 2007, 25 never had the water back up in the scuppers, and drained well. I know that C Otter moved his drain points up, which required fiberglassing the old holes in.. A fair amount of work!

journey on · Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:07 am Post subject:

I'm not going to argue with the expert, but those scupper outlets are just above water level to allow water to drain out. In Journey On they went under water in the following conditions:

1. 4 or more people in the cockpit, when you're tied up at the dock. Rather disconcerting to have someone ask "where's that water coming from?"

2. When one is slowly cruising along with the stern somewhat buried, some water will come in. Not much, but some. And it will not drain out. Use the sponge.

We have plugs and usually use them after the fact.

Boris

colbysmith · Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:11 pm Post subject:

My scuppers are just barely above the water with no additional weight in the back. That's with full fuel and potable water and our Engel freezer. (And with the Yamaha 150 and 9.9.) However if either Rosanne or I step to the very back, particularly if we stand in the corner, (ie, catching dock cleats to tie lines, etc.) the scuppers are then working in reverse. (letting water in.) Unfortunately, with the cockpit floor in the 25, at least on our boat, the scuppers can not be raised any more. (They have to be at floor level to work.) I have scupper plugs that I keep in when we are not moving or sitting in the cockpit. They are removed at night in case of rain (and while we are in the cabin) or when underway. Colby

mutski · Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2022 4:23 am Post subject:

I'm new to the C-Dory game, but in my newly acquired 22 Cruiser, I find the downwind leg most disconcerting because there is an occasional tendency to broach on a large wave. I think the trick is not to travel close to the speed of the waves.

thataway · Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2022 5:07 am Post subject:

journey on · Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:44 pm Post subject:

Foggy posted
"On a sail from Newport to St Maarten, via Bermuda, I met a guy who sailed a Catalina 22 around the world, twice. Impressive, but not for just anybody. "

Now, I've owned a Catalina 22 for many years, OK 10 years. And it went to many places in California and Mexico. Foggy, sorry but I don't believe that anyone sailed a Cat 22 around the world. It's not built for that, it was an entry boat and it would have come apart in the Pacific Ocean. I would assume the guy was boasting and picked the most improbable subject.

Now, I took a Catalina 36 to Tahiti, among other places and it did quite well. Someone, I believe, took a Catalina 27 around the world years ago. I feel Catalina builds good boats, but each has a purpose, and the 22 was an entry boat, the first boat Butler built.

Sorry Foggy, but you can tell that guy he was full of bull. And my comment is unrelated to this thread, obviously. Just been thinking about it for a couple of days.

Boris

mutski · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 2:08 pm Post subject:

thataway · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:22 pm Post subject:

Definitely have to bring the motor up, even if no Permatrim. The Permatrim I consider essential for going into the chop, as well as the trim tabs to get the bow down--and not as essential in bringing the bow. up doing down wind/seas,

I was in some pretty nasty seas in Johnston straits and was the only boat running (down wind), with wind against current--seas 6 to 8 feet, and short period. I just stayed on the back of seas and let her ride. No boats including the 80 footers were attempting to go into the seas.

mutski · Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:38 pm Post subject:

Thinking more about following seas. These are good, although the one with the cargo ships is complicated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CVwaYbyw5c&t=268s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf5lhO4CCiI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfaL6NMUfYo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGQXe35--Jk

This also has some instructive moments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS7FqXfeP7Q

Or, there's the bikinis and beer method. It's appalling, but interesting to watch after you see the instructive videos above.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH3nsTqdAd8