25/26 vs 22 in rough waters

[C-Slug]

Hi,
I have tried to search this topic and found some great stuff but wanted to get deeper into my specifics. Here goes!
I have had a C-Dory 22 for about 5 years now and I love it and am very fortunate for it. I love it's fuel economy and simplicity. I also appreciate its seaworthiness. This is my first boat.
Typically we will take her out in good weather, but here in the Santa Barbara Channel, you never really know what you're going to get. Wind directions change, fog comes up quick, swell builds, etc. It's a wild place. A few times now I've had conditions change quickly for the worse and although it's never been too scary I do wonder if a slightly bigger hull would make it safer. A self-bailing hull with some deadrise, I would think, might help too.
Anyone with experience taking a 22 vs. 25 or 26 out in rough conditions? How do they compare?
Thank you!
Crawford

[thataway]

The 25 will handle rough water better. But heavy conditions are just that. I spent 50 years of my life sailing off S. Calif. so I know what your conditions are out of Santa Barbara and the Channel Islands. When we got a "new boat" (sail) and wanted to see how it handled rough conditions, we would head for San Miguel Island, and Point Conception.

The average day in the channel can get a bit sporty in the afternoons. At one time I ran a deep V--(about 22* dead rise) Ray Hunt designed hull. Even with this boat, I had to slow down to cross the channel in the evenings. Any of the C Dory line will have low deadrise--you have to put the bow down, and accept spay as you buck into chop. The 25 will be better than the 22, but a deep V they are not. The deep V has a lot of trade offs--better going into chop--not so well going with the wind waves. The fuel economy will be worse, the boats will roll more.

There are hulls designed for the channel, like the Radon's Not often seen in Calif. are boats like the Contender and Regulator--not pilot house boats but with 24* deep V.

We owned 25's because of the increased room and head, as well as the better ride. My son runs a 25 C Dory out of Dana Point. For any of the C Dory line, I would advise going out early in the day, then 95% of the time, you will be going down or cross wind/seas coming back to your home port.

[Foggy]

Any C Dory is not a "go anywhere big water boat".
Realize, at extremes in weather, even the largest Navy ships have difficulties.

I've had my CD 26 Venture challenge the large notorious "square wave"*
pattern of Lake Michigan (aka The Lake of a Thousand Moods) and can
report these experiences are not pleasurable.

Longer story shortened: Length is ride. Ride is subjective.

Aye.

* steep, short-period waves; heights principally a function of wind speed and
fetch creating waves in excess of 10 meters (33'), about the height of a 4 story
home.
Lake Superior took the S.S. Edmund Fitzgerald, a 730' cargo ship and the lives
of all 29 crew, November 10, 1975.
https://www.michiganseagrant.org/lessons/lessons/by-broad-concept/earth-science/data-sets/the-storm-that-sunk-the-edmund-fitzgerald/

Over time, there have been more than 6,000 shipwrecks in the Great Lakes taking
an estimated 30,000 mariners lives.
https://www.shipwreckmuseum.com/underwater-research/shipwrecks/

[kaelc]

I’ve never been out in a 22. On a trip in my 25 my buddy described it as school bus waves coming from all directions. Not comfortable but it has handled a lot for me. For real comfort go for an 8000+ Grady white or Boston whaler, but we all know the trade off.

[C-Slug]

Thanks for the replies.
That Ray Hunt design looks a lot to my beginner's eyes a little like a Radon hull--lots of deadrise and chines and belly. Nice looking boats. Probably not great for fuel economy! The commercial Radons around here are very heavy by design, to plow through waves and wind on following seas (typical for afternoons coming home).
We are very careful in picking our days out but there are times when the conditions change suddenly, or there are localized weather events that surprise you. Often in the shipping channel, as one example, there will be big waves out of nowhere. I've taken a few on the deck on days that were otherwise glassy. Thankfully my bilge has handled that without issue. But the more you go out, the more the law of averages is likely to catch up to you!
Thanks for the info on the Great Lakes. A lot of wind, like here, it seems.
BTW I used to live at Ocean Beach in San Francisco and would watch the Coast Guard boats play in the surf in 15 ft. conditions for practice. Pretty awesome to watch.
Take care.

[journey on]

We have seen several 22's out at Santa Cruz Island, which means they've crossed the Santa Barbara Channel. In fact we saw one going west on the south side during the afternoon.

From these sightings, a 22 can handle the channel. It's still best to cross in the morn, before the wind comes up.

I'm also glad that we have a 25, since a bigger boat does better in rough weather. But the trip can be done in a 22. We went to Santa Cruz many times in a Catalina 22 sailboat.

Boris

[Foggy]

On a sail from Newport to St Maarten, via Bermuda, I met a guy who sailed a
Catalina 22 around the world, twice. Impressive, but not for just anybody.

[hardee]

I ran side by side with a CD-25 about 12 miles down Knight Inlet one (long) day. We were about 100 feet to 100 yards apart, running into a 3 - 5 foot wind against tide steep chop. Mostly in the 4 to 6 or 7 knot range. We were both throwing big spray, but I was the one with the rougher ride, way more hobby horsing, and green water on the foredeck.

It was with this boat, (the CD-25 in the background), "Plan B" out of California. Sure wish I could get in touch with the owners. They were a really nice young couple and we spent a few days together, exploring. This is anchored near Mound Island in the southern Broughtons.



Harvey
SleepyC

[T.R. Bauer]

No question when you add 3 feet it's a better ride. Safer? I honestly don't know, but it can't be by much, if at all.

[thataway]

[T.R. Bauer]

[ssobol]

[colbysmith]

I'm not sure I'm convinced that the 25 rides any better than the 22. Sure, it's more stable laterally when you walk side to side. However, I owned the 22 for 10 years, and have now had my 25 going into my third season. When I did Alaska's Inside Passage in my 22, with a couple in a 25, it appeared we both took the rougher chop about the same. My 25 doesn't feel any more comfortable in 2 foot chop than my 22 did. They both tend to ride rough in any form of chop on plane. My wife felt more safe sitting in the cockpit of a 22 than in the 25, simply with the lower floor, thus higher gunnels. The 25 scuppers are under water with any weight in the cockpit. But that only matters when you are still in the water. If you want the bigger boat for the enclosed head and more room, go for it. If you want it for a better ride, I'm just not convinced in my experience that it's that much different. BTW, the scuppers do work underway. Also, I had two bilge pumps when I had my 22. They could pump a lot of water quickly. I guess it all comes down to how much water you are talking about. Colby

[thataway]

[colbysmith]