power steering assist units?

bcarli · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:05 am Post subject: power steering assist units?

Hi
Has anybody installed any sort of power steering unit to make the helm easier. I see sea star has a unit that west marine sells for about $1300.
thanks
Bill

Sea Wolf · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:41 am Post subject:

Bill-

Do you currently have hydraulic or mechanical (cable) steering?

Hydraulic is generally considerably less effort than mechanical, if you have mechanical, simply switching to hydraulic might be the answer.

I also would suggest that a less expensive way to decrease steering effort would be to increase your leverage by simply getting a larger steering wheel. Moreover, adding a spinner knob might help, too.

Because of individual thigh and abdominal clearance issues with a larger wheel, you might also have to get (or make) an adaptor for your existing steering unit to tilt the wheel into a more horizontal plane. Also, complete new hydraulic units with adjustable tilt features are available.

I actually have power assisted steering on my Sea Ray with twin inboards, but the installation is standard factory OEM, so can only say it does steer with very little effort, albeit with less of the feel (feedback) that unassisted units might have, in my guesstimate.

There are electrical "fly by wire" units available too, where the helm steering unit and engine steering slave unit are electrical, but the expense and loss of feeling there are both greater.

Back before 9-11, I rode on a 47-foot Surfboat with a friend of mine who was a U. S. Coast Guard Coxwain , and he mentioned that he preferred the feel of regular hydraulic steering of the older 44-foot Surfboats to the the fly by wire feel of the new models.

Hope this helps!

Joe. Teeth

BrentB · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:18 am Post subject:

Are you having problems with your steering or just throwing out a ? for discussion?

A hydraulic helm can be rebuilt easily or updated.

same for steering ram

Some ram brands leaks and require replacing the seals .

other, UFlex Steering Ram does not (better design) and beefier

Can u post additional information so the gurus can provide an informative answer? thanks

bcarli · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:18 am Post subject:

Thank you for your input.
I am driving my boat on average 7 hours a day seven days a week and have been since June, and probably will continue to until the end of August. It's amazing how much my shoulders, arms and neck ache after spending so much time driving....So I'm trying to figure out the best way to fix this problem. I never thought about a bigger wheel. That probably is the first place to start. The best thing I ever did on my boat was to replace the factory seat with a bucket-seat from a Honda car. WHAT A DIFFERENCE in comfort. I bought the seat for $100 at a garage sale and it only took a few hours to instal.
Thanks again for your feedback
Bill

thataway · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:34 am Post subject:

With that much usage, if the type of boating lends itself, I would have an auto pilot. We did not notice any particular fatigue with the C Dory25, but we only ran it a month at a time--and probably an average of 5 hours a day. I felt the Tom Cat with counter rotating Suzuki engines was as easy as driving my car.

You might also check to see if the trim tab on the anti ventilation plate is correctly set, to eliminate any torque from the prop rotation.

I have only had power steering on larger I/O boats (such as Joe's Sea Ray).

BrentB · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:51 am Post subject:

[quote="bcarli"]Thank you for your input.
I am driving my boat on average 7 hours a day seven days a week and have been since June, and probably will continue to until the end of August.

Wow

you would love an autopilot

recent autopilot discussion, see
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=21583&highlight=autopilot

Captains Cat · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:03 pm Post subject:

I don't see a response to the question asked of you about what kind of steering you have. Do you currently have Hydraulic steering? If so and You still get very tired, then certainly an autopilot which is not hard to install on hydraulic steering would certainly help. If you have mechanical steering, installaiion of hydraulic May solve your problem!. JMHO!

Charlie

PaulNBriannaLynn · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:34 pm Post subject:

We have the baystar unit on our boat and I like it very much. Turning the wheel takes almost no effort. Previously with mechanical steering there was some resistance as you were contending with the weight of the motors.

The comments about leakage are appropriate. The only complaint I have about our unit is that it does have a little bit of leaking at the helm. I top it off about once per year with probably an ounce of fluid and its not noticable enough to replace the seal yet, but I do have to wipe the bulkhead down occassionally with a paper towel.

After a long trip I still get the soar neck and shoulders, but I think our helm seat leaves something to be desired.

Sunbeam · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:58 pm Post subject:

ssobol · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:08 pm Post subject:

Assuming that there are no mechanical issues with the steering system, are your trim tabs on the motor(s) adjusted properly. While some steering systems are zero feedback, this does not mean that the forces to turn left and right are balanced. You may find that the force to turn one way is different from the other. The tabs should be adjusted to give balanced turning force at your most commonly used cruising speed.

My boat has hydraulic steering, but when cruising at speed the force to turn the wheel left is a bit more than to turn the wheel right. Someday I will adjust the trim tab on the motor to correct this, but it is a trial and error type exercise that I haven't got around to yet.

Sunbeam · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:25 pm Post subject:

I just happened to be doing some reading on the Sea Star steering pages. This page looks to give some good info, with links to more "decision points" for further reading. They talk about lock-to-lock turns vs. effort, etc.

http://www.seastarsolutions.com/products/hydraulic-new/outboard-new/seastar-front-mount/

They do mention that for "finger tip control" there are power steering units that can be added, but that's probably overkill.

bcarli · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:54 pm Post subject:

Hi
I have hydraulic steering. I would like to know more about installing an auto pilot. Any ideas on makes and models?
Once again thank you all for your input
Bill

Pedromo · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:40 pm Post subject:

It would be good to know what brand and model of hydraulic steering you have.
I suggest the following:
1. Make sure the fluid in the system IS NOT automotive transmission fluid, but instead a good quality hydraulic fluid, designed for this purpose.
2. Confirm that the fluid level is correct.
If 1 and 2 are confirmed:
3. Check for friction points at the motor. Keep in mind that a number of the components must slide freely. Teflon lubricant is a good choice.
If 1, 2, and 3 do not alleviate the symptom:
a. Consider larger diameter fluid lines, go from 3/8" to 1/2".
b. Install an autopilot.

I installed a Raymarine series 100, and I'm happy with it. Instead of writing how to do it, I suggest you go to the Raymarine website and download the installation instructions.
Enjoy

thataway · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:17 pm Post subject:

I doubt that increasing the lines to 1/2" would solve the issue here.

Two of us have mentioned the trim tab on the anti ventilation plate. Has that been optimized? Is there always pressure to one side when on a plane?

There has been a new line up of autopilots in the last year. Before that many were using the RayMarine, which the EV 100 has now replaced. The Simrad 24 is a very good pilot, as well as the Garmin GPH 10. Each has some features which are helpful in specific instances. The question which you are going to have to resolve is if the pump on the least expensive of these pilots is going to be powerful for the motor on the C Dory 25. What you can get away with on a 22, may be too slow for the 25. (depending on engines and set up of the system).

Pedromo · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:42 pm Post subject:

Good points Thataway...
The suggestion to increase the volume by increasing the diameter of the lines was given to me by the factory tech support people. While I can't scientifically verify the information, it made a noticeable difference in my Baystar with 90hp Honda. By the way, I decided on the 1/2" diameter, because the local hydraulic hose supplier had the material on hand.
Cheers