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TC255 battery replacement recommendation

 
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NoCats



Joined: 09 Dec 2021
Posts: 9
City/Region: Whidbey Island
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2019
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: No Cats
PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 3:12 pm    Post subject: TC255 battery replacement recommendation Reply with quote

Hello
Just purchased our boat (2019 TC255) and would like to upgrade the flooded cell Group 24 batteries to AGMs. We'll be using the boat for cruising and it is equipped with a refrigerator so I'd like to bump up to Group 31 AGMs Looking at Lifeline batteries that would increase the weight by 12# each. What have other folks done?

Thanks,
J.M.
TC255 No Cats
Whidbey Island, WA
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mstrpo



Joined: 27 Aug 2021
Posts: 43
City/Region: Battle Ground
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: C-Otter
Photos: C-Otter
PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our 2006 TomCat was upgraded by the original owner (Gene Morris) some time ago. There are 4 AGM's for the house and an AGM for each motor. the 4 AGM's are in the port cabinet next to the door and the motor bat's are behind the fridge. Gene also installed an inverter/charger under the aft dinette seat and some dedicated outlets supplied by the inverter. Shore power is connected via a Smart Plug. There are several pics in the Reef Madness gallery of these improvements and many others.
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The Luckiest Guy!!!
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gulfcoast john



Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 989
City/Region: PENSACOLA
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2010
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Cat O' Mine
Photos: CAT O' MINE
PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J.M.,

We have three group 31 AGM (upgraded from 27) under the transom seat. I can’t imagine group 24’s on a TC255 with a fridge. AGM’S have to be ‘secured’ but not totally encased like wet cells. Some boats used for charter diving or heavy fishing have converted that space for compressors or live wells. PS my original fridge died early due to no ventilation in the Nav seat cabinet.

We have one House battery (which gets a workout every night at anchor on every cruise) and a separate Engine Start battery for each engine. Those two slackers each work for about two seconds each moving day. Seems odd, but each boat is often wired differently. Our windlass runs off the House battery, which gets no charging when underway unless I manually Combine it with an engine battery. (I don’t have an ACR due to a unique feature of the Blue Seas PS12 40-amp charger I like).

On average for us, two nights at anchor will consume the 55 amps max one should extract from a 105 amp group 31 battery. It helps to turn the fridge thermostat warmer at night when you’ve shut the door for the last time. The Victron 702 is invaluable as a coulomb in and out counter and worth the extra cost over the 701.

A high quality battery charger is needed to top off what the engines don’t (the last 20%). The standard Guest 5/5/10 amp is (ahem) not in that group. Even the highest quality batteries can not meet expectations with a sub par charger when on shore power.

Over the past 40 years on trailer boats, I was disappointed with the performance of flooded cells as well as AGMs from Optima, Odyssey and others averaging 36-48 months before failing a load test (at which time you should replace all three, or the weakest will bring down the strongest). They all made it hard to get warranty replacement ie ‘ship it to us so our engineers can examine it etc’ and in the interim you have nil. Also, no one will replace the other two good batteries under warranty.

In 2017 I installed three Northstar AGM 31 which are still testing strong at a record five years (rated for 800 discharges to 80% with a three year replacement warranty). However, they’re now $500 each. Lifeline is even more, but they have an excellent reputation in military and aviation use (if it’s good enough for an F-16).... That still won’t get you enough amps for another night at anchor. Rolls/Surrette 6V golf cart batteries might last even longer.

You could run the engines for a while for some bulk absorb charging if you don’t want to deal with a Honda generator on board (we don’t).

I concur with Jim Healy that soon a lithium drop-in replacement for boat batteries will be routine, but we are not quite exactly there yet. As always, there are some exceptionally knowledgeable experts (like Thataway) who make it work just fine.

I have come to believe that the most common reason for premature battery failure is what I call “Switchcraft errors” or operator error. Especially in my case.

Mike Rizzo (knotflying) on a Ranger 27 has an interesting theory. He replaces his three cheap WalMart flooded Group 31’s ($90 each) every 36 months regardless of how they test. He presents a convincing argument that this is the best return on investment for most cruisers. And if you need to replace a battery in Montebello, Quebec on a Sunday, there’s a WalMart there and you don’t have to speak French.

I’m undecided about what to do when I finally kill off the Northstars. I don’t want flooded batteries on the boat, so maybe cheap Duracell 31 AGM’s at $220 each and replace every 48 months regardless.

I’m sure the hive will have great observations and that you need better batteries for cruising on that great boat. Which charger do you have? Also concur that the Smartplug is a good investment. Cynics will say, “Hey, all you did was move the highest risk connection from your boat to the marina power pedestal!”

Exactly.

If Santa brings you three Group 31 Lifelines, you must have been very, very good this year.

Cheers!

John

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John and Eileen Highsmith
2010 Tom Cat 255, Cat O' Mine
Yamaha F150, LXF150
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20779
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have used the Sam's club Duracell Group 31 AGM batteries ($179), and get 4 plus years out of them--some considerably longer. On the Tom Cat 255 we had 4 group 31 AGM for house, and 2 group 31 engine start. 2 of the Group 31's were in the aft lazaret area. Two were on port side stacked on of each other under the aft dinette seat. Today I would be putting in 2 LiFePO4 batteries, these are as low as $399. (About the same as Lifeline AGM.). "The Li should last for at least 10 to 11 years with minimal loss of capacity. On a C Dory 25 I had 2 100 amp. hour batteries dedicated to two chest freezer/refrigerator, units, plus cooking with microwave and single burner induction. These are charged off the start battery with a Sterling Battery to battery 30 amp charger. Also an 80 amp charger on the Victron Multiplus inverter/charger. You want a specific li battery charger to get the best usage of the batteries.

The lifetime are very well regarded batteries. There are others, such as Trojan Golf Cart 6V 220 amp hours AGM, as well as Firefly carbon Foam, which has good State of Charge, and can be normally almost completely discharged like the LiFePO4 batteries. It has come to the point that LI. batteries can be had as reasonably as the Lifetime, and give a lot more for the $$. See Will Prowse U Tube videos on in-expenisve Li batteries. I have used one of the $500 batteries in a SUV utilization, and it has worked well. I have Battle Born in the other limp.

In any case be sure that you upgrade the battery charger, (see John's recommendation. Also NOCO, Master Volt, Victron, and ProMariner Pro nautica are all good chargers. Be sure that you monitor the system. I recommend the Victron 712. This gives voltage, amps in and out plus % percent charged or state of charge.

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
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Home port: Pensacola FL
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 3362
City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Walmart dual purpose FLA batteries. They are relatively inexpensive and there are Walmarts all over. On my boat I tend to replace the house battery about every 4-5 years (it does most of the work).

FWIW, Consumer Reports rates the Walmart EverStart Max batteries as a "best buy".
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