Generator Question

[mrw90]

For those of you using any of the small generators. . .

How are you using them?

In charging the batteries, do you need to connect them directly to the battery that you wish to charge? If so, do you need to disconnect every thing else that is wired to the battery before charging. Or, can you connect the generator to the battery charger and charge the battery through that.

In powering your AC Stuff, do you plug directly into the generator, or can you hook into the shore power system somehow?

Would appreciate your feedback. We are on the list for a May 25' Cruiser and working through all the options and what we want to put on it!

[Alyssa Jean]

Hi neighbor,

On my 25 I have a Honda 2000E. When I use it for power I put it in the engine well (assuming there isn't raining) and use a short cord from it into the shore power plug. The 25 has a built in battery charger and so once you are using shore power from what-ever source you are charging the batteries as well as powering the 115 v outlets in the cabin.

Hope that helps.

[mrw90]

Thanks for the info. That's nice and easy.

[Adeline]

My Yamaha 1000 sits atop the starboard lazzarette and a 6' extension cord plugs into a Marinco 30 amp shore-power inlet. Then to a 30 amp master breaker in a mini- panel mounted above the cabinet doors. Then to a 3 breaker mini-panel to the left. Then one circuit to a 15 amp duplex gfci located behind the helm seat. A second breaker serves a 10 amp/2 bank Xantrex smart charger that is mounted to the rear bulkhead under the counter. One output runs to the house battery inside the port lazzarette. The other to the starting battery inside the starboard lazzarette. Ring terminals are used at the batteries and a seperate cable connects the negative terminals to each other. I leave a 400 watt microwave plugged into one outlet(oven sits inside icebox) and I use the other for a coffee-maker or other small appliance. Typical morning; Start generator and turn on charger, run drip coffee maker, hot coffee into thermos, microwave some oatmeal or make breakfast on the Wallas. By the time I've finished breakfast the batteries have recovered whatever energy the Wallas required overnight and I'm ready for another day.

[Papillon]

[Sea Wolf]

I'm going to take the liberty of describing an inexpensive 120 volt shore power and generator set up that is easy to set up and costs a lot less than a $1000 shore power system from the factory, although the CD-25 now comes standard with it (I think).

Rather than cutting up the cabinetry and installing a lot of connection boxes, circuit breakers, outlets, reverse polarity indicators, and indicator lights, you can do it this way:

A GFI (ground field interruptor) type bus bar with a 6 foot pigtail is placed beside the helm on the left over space beside the motor controls. The tail is led aft underneath the galley and out the wiring port on the starboard side of the boat under the gunnel.

This GFI bus bar has the circuit breaker overload protection, the GFI protection, the monitor on/off light and switch, and the multiple outlets all in one $25 or so unit.

A standard grounded (3 wire polarized) extention cord is plugged into the tail of this bus bar from the dock for shore power usage.

(You will also probably have to have a twist and lock 30 amp male plug adapter to actually plug into the dock's shore power outlet, since they usually have this feature.)

In the simplest usage, applicances are simply plugged into the busbar and used in the cabin.

To adapt the set up to generator usage, the generator is placed somewhere convenient on the boat where the exhaust gases will not induce carbon monoxide poisioning in the crew, the generator linked to the bus bar pigtail with a short extension cord, then the generator is started, and now we have 120 volts for whatever needed.

I have a Honda 1000ia which I set on a large cooler in front of the engine well, tie down with a bungee cord, and run with the exhaust facing aft so that the exhaust will go down into the engine well and not into the cockpit.

To be able to charge one's batteries, you'll have to have an on board charger. This can be a hard wired marinized type, but I actually use a 40 amp automotive style charger, mounted up on the inside of the hull next to the helm wiring. I've hard wired it to the large cables coming up from the batteriess to the helm. The big deal about using a marinized unit on a boat is that they are sparkless, but there's no gas fumes up in the v-berth, unlesss the dog's been eating brocoli and beans again.

The charger is plugged into one of the bus bar outlets, and can be run from either 120 volt shore power or the generator.

I have this set up in my CD-22, and it works like a charm! Cost is about $625 for the Honda, $25 for the busbar, $15 for the extension cords, $5 for the adaptor (make it yourself!), and about $95 for the big charger.

Additionally, I have 4, not 2, group 27 batteries, two of which are under the forward dinette seat with their own 1-both-2- off switch. The charger will charge all four at the same time equally w/o problems as long as there all about the same condition. I added the last two batteries when I mounted an Engine Mounted Trolling Motor to the 2005 Yamahma last year as a substitute for a gas kicker. Much less trouble, but also much less thrust-trolling only up to 2 mph. Buat it's absolutely "silent running".

By using the two battery switches, you can use and charge any 1,2,3, or all of the batteries at will. Total amp hours available w/o using the generator or main motor to recharge is about 70% of the total 460 amp-hours at which the battiries are rated, or about 325 amp-hours.

I have evolved this set up over the past 7 years, dramatically increasing the battery storage capacity and adding the generator in the last two.

Some may offer the criticism that the shore power set up is not grounded. This can be simply done by attaching a ground wire from one of the plug outlets and connecting it to the negative side of the boat's 12-v system. Connecting it will stop any chance that ae electrical short on board will result in charging the nearby water and possibly paralyizing a nearby swimmer.

Do you swim around the docks? If not you may not need the ground.

When you connect the 120-v system to the 12-v via the ground, you also allow any stray currents around the dock to come on board through any of your boat's grounded metal fittings in the water, including the engine!

Les Lampman once wrote in a posting here that he didn't really like such a grounded system, as it could lead to more corrosion aboard than w/o a shore power system.

So for me, I'm leaving the system un-grounded, not swimming alongside when the shore power's connected, and saving my new engine and the rest of the boat's electrical system and electronics the corrosion that must by NEMA standards be incorporated into the more than twice as expensive system.

Joe.

[tpbrady]

Joe,

I always like your complete and logical answers. I haven't given much thought to shore power yet since we don't have many places to plug in where I go. A generator though is in the cards and I like the simplicity of your setup.

With 4 batteries if I didn't know better I'd say you were running an electric outboard.

[Sea Wolf]

Tom-

Well, almost an "electric outboard". The trolling motor on the anti-ventilation plate produces up to 44 lbs of thrust, drawing as much as 38 amps, and with the 325 amp-hours of power available, should push the boat along for eight and a half hours at about 2 mph. (theoretically).



In practice, we either start the Yamaha motor or the Honda generator after about 6 hours max, as the lowered voltage starts to become obvious and the trolling motor becomes weaker and less efficient.

It was great meeeting you at the boat show, and thanks again for the ride to the factory Saturday night!

Joe.

[tpbrady]

Joe,

I bet a Yamaha is virtually silent at 2 mph. I can imagine the strange looks when you go by someone trolling with prop wash coming out from a motor not making any noise.

[Adeline]

[CAVU]

Joe,
Great post on the shore power subject. I do not have a shore power set-up on my boat-yet. I have only used dock power once to run an electric heater and I used an extension cord with a twist-lock adapter. I plugged a short GFI extension cord into the long cord and the heater into the GFI. About your comment that a short would cause danger to someone in the water near your boat-wouldn't a short cause the GFI to trip? I thought my set-up was safe, maybe not?

[Sea Wolf]

Ken-

Yes, you're right, the GFI should cause the circuit to break off if the hot side of the circuit is grounded to the water or somewhere inside the boat, but only providing the amperage differential is enough to pop the relay.

Without quantitative information on the relay and the possible amount of amperage leakage through the water, it becomes impossible to determine if a small leakage would trip the breaker. We'd also have to know at what voltage and amperage the path through the water causes paralysis to the swimmer.

The danger to the swimmer is usually more in the form of muscle paralysis and drowning at a lesser current and voltage than would be necessary to cause heart stoppage or even electrocution.

My hunch is that any amount of current and voltage that would be dangerous to the swimmer would also trip the GFI, but that's just a guess and not worth trying out in your Speedos!

This is the best answer I can give in all honesty, but I'm no Ph. D in the Physiology of Electrocution in Humans. That's more down Rogerbum's alley!

Are we on-base here, Roger?

Joe.

[True Story]

Timely discussion. I have also been thinking about cost effective solutions for occasional AC use by shore power or our Honda generator. I noticed the following site for Lind Equipment was referenced by West Marine www.lindequipment.net/gfcimult.htm. Is this the type of equipment your referring to Joe? Four outlet, 15 amp breaker with GFCI protection. Better hurry before the power goes out!

Tim

[tpbrady]

Joe,

Here is a link to an article I read several months ago that deals in missing grounds and voltage in marinas. In a nutshell the problem is most acute in fresh water marinas due to the conductivity of saltwater. It's good reading for the technically inclined.

Here is another article from the same web site detailing cases of people not surviving encounters with low levels of voltage around marinas. They all appear to be in fresh water.

Links fixed by Da Nag

[Sea Wolf]

True Story-

I'm sure those would work, but the one I bought was from the TV-Video department in (believe it or not) Wally's World! It looks pretty much just like a standard bus bar you'd have to multiply the wall outlets to hook all your computer power plugs or anything else into, but also includes the GFI circuits and inlets and outlets for your TV / computer coaxial cable to ground them to the 120-v ground wire to in turn protect you and your stuff against a lightening strike, as I remember it. About 17 easy one$ as I recall. RCA brand- made in ???

Tom-

Still reading! Thanks.