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robhwa
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
Posts: 272
City/Region: Anderson Island
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Marcia C
Photos: Problemadela
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 Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| thataway wrote: | | The best solution is to use a Automatic voltage Relay AVR or Voltage sensitive relay, VSR. They are the same thing. |
Another solution is to install a DC/DC charger that prioritizes the starting battery. These will charge the starting battery when the motor is on and only allow current to flow to the house battery when the current exceeds a certain amount, usually only when the engine is on and the starting battery is charged. Adding a solar or AC "trickle" battery maintainer will keep the starting batter charged when sitting for a long time. Since I have large solar panels, I use a dual input (alternator or solar) DC/DC charger that prioritizes charging the starting battery...when the sun shines, it charges the starting battery first, and then the house batteries. |
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BBlalock
Joined: 31 Jan 2017
Posts: 140
City/Region: Ocean/ICW
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 2013
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Finale
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for this. The more research I did the more I was thinking the Guest can't be my problem. The house batt when new tested at 100% and then a short time later tests at 80%. And that is after I put it on my smart portable charger. Both batteries are start 24 series. I'm planning to move the house to the port locker and get a marine deep cycle and larger than 24 series.
I pulled the house out and had 3 cells I put water in. 1 was almost down to the top of the plates and the other 2 were just down a bit. Easy to see lower but not too bad.
The start battery is maybe 6 mos older and no issues.
Am I right in saying the vsr controls the charging to the batteries so they get what is needed and not too much?
So is it possible the vsr might be my issue if I'm not using the Guest but very seldom? 
Benton
_________________
'13 25' Cruiser "Finale"
'12 22' Fiesta pontoon(sold) |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20803
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Another solution is to install a DC/DC charger that prioritizes the starting battery. These will charge the starting battery when the motor is on and only allow current to flow to the house battery when the current exceeds a certain amount, usually only when the engine is on and the starting battery is charged. Adding a solar or AC "trickle" battery maintainer will keep the starting batter charged when sitting for a long time. Since I have large solar panels, I use a dual input (alternator or solar) DC/DC charger that prioritizes charging the starting battery...when the sun shines, it charges the starting battery first, and then the house batteries.
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Which DC to DC charger are you using? I have experience with several (Victron and Sterling). Neither of these will "Priortize" the start battery, any more than a VSR does. (I am using a VSR between start and house--and the DC to DE to a 3rd battery bank--both in the RV and was in Thataway.
I do not have solar, since it would take over 300 watts to meet our demands when at anchor--and I find it cheaper to run the Honda generator, and charge thru a high output (80 amp) charger, if necessary.
_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20803
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Am I right in saying the vsr controls the charging to the batteries so they get what is needed and not too much? |
No, the VSR is not "smart" other than it connects and disconnects. There is no control of the amount of energy put into each battery.
See the above set of exchanges, ref a DC to DC charger. There may be a DC charger which does this--the DC chargers I have used (Victron and Sterling, do give proper charge to the Li battery bank, but do not have any control to the starting battery. Their circuits are not set up for that.
Adding solar is one option. I used the very small (30 watt) solar panels to maintain the house and start batteries of both boats and vans when stored in Las Vegas or S. Calif. When I would come back after 6 months, all batteries were fully charged. |
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ssobol
Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 3370
City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| thataway wrote: | | "... The battery switch is dumb--it only connects two batteries or isolates them. If you are running with the engine and battery switch is on house, then you are not charging that house battery. You will only be starting the engine starting battery... |
I guess it depends on how your boat is wired. On my boat the battery switch determines which battery is in the circuit (1, 2, both (paralleled), none). I do not have an ACR. I normally operate off the house battery (selected at the battery switch) and can see it charging when running the motor.
It does not make sense to me that the "on-side" battery would not be in the charging circuit. |
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robhwa
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
Posts: 272
City/Region: Anderson Island
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Marcia C
Photos: Problemadela
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| thataway wrote: | Which DC to DC charger are you using? I have experience with several (Victron and Sterling). Neither of these will "Priortize" the start battery, any more than a VSR does. (I am using a VSR between start and house--and the DC to DE to a 3rd battery bank--both in the RV and was in Thataway.
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Renogy DCS50S...from the manual and online:
- Designed to charge service batteries from two DC inputs—solar panels and alternator
- 3-phase charging profile (Bulk, Boost, and Float) ensures your service battery will be accurately charged at the correct voltage levels to 100%
- Trickle charges the starting battery via solar panels if the service battery is fully charged
- Isolation of the starting battery and the service battery
- Temperature and voltage compensation features prolong battery life and improve system performance
- Features: battery isolation, over-voltage protection, battery temperature protection, over-current protection, overheat protection, reverse current protection, solar panel and alternator reverse polarity protection
- Compatible with multiple battery types: Sealed, AGM, GEL, Flooded, and Lithium
Nice combination solar + alternator in one package. If it had a 1000 watt inverter it would be perfect.
These are reasons I picked this (installed under sink in dry environment in the boat) for both my camper and boat. I eventually replaced all AGM house batteries with LiFePO4, Renogy (cheaper, lighter), in camper and BattleBorne in boat. So far, so good. |
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smckean (Tosca)
Joined: 18 Jan 2014
Posts: 975
City/Region: Guemes Island (Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Tosca
Photos: Tosca
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| thataway wrote: | | If you are running with the engine and battery switch is on house, then you are not charging that house battery. |
Don't over look this very important point that Bob makes. You say your battery switch only has 2 positions: House & All (I will presume there is also an Off position). Unless that switch is in the All position, there is no way that current can flow into the house battery from the alternator. You say you normally have the switch in the House position while underway (note: the only time the alternator is producing current). This means you are getting zero charging of your house battery while underway. You also say that you rarely hook up to 120v AC when you store the boat or while you are at a marina. There must be something missing in your description because under these circumstances you house battery is basically never getting charged!
| Quote: | | The best solution is to use a Automatic voltage Relay AVR or Voltage sensitive relay, VSR. |
I agree with Bob here; but be aware VSR's (as opposed to battery isolators) draw a small current always (even while the boat is stored). Since you say you don't plug your boat into 120vAC power while storing it, this small draw may flatten your battery over several months of storage.
_________________
Sandy McKean
Purchased Tosca in 2014
Re-powered to Yammi 200 in 2015 |
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BBlalock
Joined: 31 Jan 2017
Posts: 140
City/Region: Ocean/ICW
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 2013
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Finale
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| Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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Well it is a 3 position switch - Off, 1 and ALL. Looks like I need to run with the switch at All and then when we get to a day destination move to 1, the fridge and VHF could still run while we are at play. Then back to All for the run home.
I'll see how my batteries act with this change in battery use.
I will not make any changes except for battery selection with the existing switch.
I really do appreciate all your inputs.
Benton  |
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