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westward
Joined: 18 Feb 2005 Posts: 718 City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1985
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: Steady Eddy
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Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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I've heard diesel is susceptible to contamination and breakdown but I'm unfamiliar with handling it and don't have another diesel engine to consume aging fuel. What do people recommend for treating/stabilizing diesel fuel to extend its useful life and prevent contamination? I'm assuming contamination would be very bad for a Wallas heater/stove |
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colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Posts: 4523 City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
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Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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I had a Wabasto Diesel heater on my 22 for several years, and now have one on my 25. I routinely use HOWES LUBRICANTS Diesel Fuel Additive, Amber. I usually run thru 5+ gallons of diesel a year, and none of it sits for more than a year. (The diesel I use is just the regular stuff bought at the gas station diesel pumps.) I also run my Webasto at least once a month, for about half an hour or more, to keep it lubricated, per the instructions. No problems noted. (Except one time when it was in the teens outside while boaterhoming home from a cruise. Not sure if the fuel iced up a bit or some other problem. But I had a problem getting the unit to fire up. But after messing around with the fuel pickup a bit, it finally started. That was the only problem I've had. BTW, the big negative to me about the wallas is that I believe it's either on or off. The Webasto and other like heaters have rheostats that can maintain the cabin temperature. |
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DayBreak
Joined: 16 Jul 2017 Posts: 838 City/Region: Monmouth, Or.
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 2018
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: DayBreak
Photos: DayBreak
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Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Colby. The Nordic Dt 85 Wallas with blower lid has a rheostat knob for adjusting the heat. _________________ Gary F
DayBreak, 23 Venture, 2018 - present
Last edited by DayBreak on Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Posts: 4523 City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
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Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | The Nordic Dt 85 Wallas with blower has a rheostat knob for adjusting the heat.
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I understood that was basically a low, med, high adjustment. Will it actually maintain a set temperature as the ambient air temperature changes? Ie. I can set my rheostat to maintain a cabin temperature all night of 60 degrees, while the outside temperature may fluctuate from 60 to 40 and back up in the morning. |
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DayBreak
Joined: 16 Jul 2017 Posts: 838 City/Region: Monmouth, Or.
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 2018
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: DayBreak
Photos: DayBreak
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Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Colby. This unit has a numerical value of 1 to 6 based on how much heat you want. Sounds different than your unit. |
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srbaum
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 Posts: 875 City/Region: Portsmouth
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:46 am Post subject: |
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The Nordic has a thermostat, built into the control panel. When in the heat mode (lid down), the sensor keeps the cabin temperature consistent, with the setting of the heat knob. _________________ Steve Baum
Homeport of Portsmouth, VA
OSPREY (Ex Mister Sea) 2000 22 C-Dory 2010 - Sold 3/19
OSPREY (Ex ADITI) 2007 26 Cape Cruiser 2018 |
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colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Posts: 4523 City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:00 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like the newer units are better then with the thermostat. |
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srbaum
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 Posts: 875 City/Region: Portsmouth
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:32 am Post subject: |
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Colby,
With our older 95D in the 22, I usually had to get up during the night to regulate the temperature. With the Nordic, the temperature stays about the same all night. Two weeks ago, I was on a cruise for a few days and never had to mess with the temp at night.
Hands down, the new stove, aside from a similar look and working principle, is a completely different machine... The only thing that I can say that I miss from the 95D, was that the cover lid had swirl marks, so that every thing on the cover, didn't make it look dirty... |
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pcg
Joined: 31 Aug 2018 Posts: 405 City/Region: Sherwood
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Quest
Photos: pcg
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:33 am Post subject: |
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The newer Wallas Nordic DT appears to be a game changer. I wasn't considering Wallas until now because of the number of accounts I've read of dissatisfied Wallas owners. For anyone pondering diesel vs. propane, here's some comparisons I've come up with. I know how some feel about propane, and that's been discussed over and over here, so no need to start that up again please.
Comparison of Wallas Nordic DT stove heater to Propex HS2800 heater (the largest version they offer) and a propane cooktop.
Diesel in 5 gal can
137,381 btu/gal
Weighs 7lb/gal (varies from 7 to 8 lbs per U.S. gallon)
Contents of five gal can weighs 35 lbs.
Contains 686,905 btu (137,381 btu/gal x 5 gal)
3,971 btu/lb (695,000At high output, stove develops 6650 btu
At high output, heater develops 6,650 btu
At high output, stove consumes 6.5 oz/hr
At high output, heater will run for 98.5 hrs (128 oz/gal)(5 gal)/(6.5 oz/hr)
5 gallons of diesel, used in this heater, contain 655,000 btu-hr
Elec draw: 9A for 5 min to start, o.75A full power
Total cost: $3,000 total
Disadvantages:
6650 might not be sufficient in really cold weather
Heat cannot be ducted
Long time for stove top to heat up and stove heat may not be sufficient
Advantages:
Simple installation
Diesel inherently safer than propane
Propane in 20# tank (4.6 gal full)
91,500 btu /gal
Weighs 4.24 lb/gal
Contents of 20# tank weighs 19.5 lbs (4.24 lb/gal x 4.6 gal)
Contains 420,900 btu (91,500 btu/gal x 4.6 gal)
12,585 btu/lb (420,900 btu/19.5 lb)
At high output, heater develops 9556 btu
At high output, heater consumes 12.8 oz/hr [(128 oz/gal)/(10 hrs/gal)]
At high output, heater will run for 46 hours (10 hrs/gal)(4.6 gal)
4.6 gal of propane, used in this heater, contain 439,576 btu-hr (9556 x 46)
Elec draw: instant on, 1.9A full power plus 0.5A? for propane valve
Cost of heater: $1000
Cost of stove top: $500 - $1000
Cost of propane locker: $600 components plus physical locker construction
Total cost: $2100 - $2600 (depending on stove top)
Disadvantages:
Requires propane detectors and construction of a propane locker and ductwork for heater.
Advantages:
Higher heater output (9556 btu)
Higher stove output (7000 and 11000 btu burners for Dickinson 2-burner stovetop)
Instant heat
Heat can be directed via ductwork to where it's most needed. _________________ Paul |
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srbaum
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 Posts: 875 City/Region: Portsmouth
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Paul,
Thanks for posting these details. I would add two things to your list... Pro for Wallas is that it removed moisture/condensation from the cabin interior. Con for propane, as it adds moisture/condensation to the cabin... |
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pcg
Joined: 31 Aug 2018 Posts: 405 City/Region: Sherwood
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Quest
Photos: pcg
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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srbaum wrote: | Con for propane, as it adds moisture/condensation to the cabin... |
That's not true in this instance. Yes, the combustion of both diesel and propane produces moisture (as well as CO) and that's why combustion gases from a heater should be vented to the outside. The Propex heaters, like the Atwood propane furnace in our camper, have an inlet and outlet for combustion, and an inlet and outlet for cabin air. The inlet and outlet for combustion is always vented to the outside, so the moisture created and the CO don't get in the cabin. The heater outlet for cabin air obviously gets vented into the cabin. The heater inlet for cabin air can be ducted from the outside to bring in fresh air(as the Wallas does), or from the inside to recirculate and quickly heat interior air. Even in the latter instance, no moisture is added to the air. |
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Hunkydory
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 2652 City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Pcg, yes that’s that’s true with the heater, but is the propane stove cook top also vented like the Wallas? On all my past & present rv campers using propane, the heat was vented as you say, but the stoves unlike the Wallas were all open flame.
Jay _________________ Jay and Jolee 2000 22 CD cruiser Hunkydory
I will not waste my days in trying to prolong them------Jack London
https://share.delorme.com/JuliusByers |
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westward
Joined: 18 Feb 2005 Posts: 718 City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1985
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: Steady Eddy
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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In my conversations with ScanMarine, I was told the Nordic flush mount unit could be controlled thermostatically as was mentioned above. I believe (don't quote me here) he said the countertop unit had multiple fixed set levels, but not true thermostatic control. |
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macmac
Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Posts: 48 City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:17 pm Post subject: Wallas products |
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The earlier Wallas 95D and 125D stoves and stove heaters used brushed fan motors. The hallmark of running brushed motors is that they slow down over time. These units would see significant rpm drop after 500 to 1,000 hours of run time, making for a corresponding drop in combustion air, making the system run too rich and eventually fouling with carbon deposits in the combustion chamber and injection needle.
Starting and stopping the 95D/125D units with the throttle on "high" helped reduce carbon fouling. A unit that had reached a high degree of fouling internally could sometimes be coaxed to limp along by using kerosene (good, fresh, 1K grade or better kerosene) for a while, but would eventually need servicing.
In 2006, Wallas introduced the 85D series (now called the Nordic Dt), which used all brushless fans, with estimated life expectancies over 30,000 hours. This amounted to a fundamental shift in service life expectations - much longer than before.
These newer units are commonly in the field for more than 5,000 hours without any servicing. Before the 85D series, these products had no internal clock, but the new ones all do. This means we have been able to greatly improve on what we can expect by seeing what happens in a given run time.
The 85D and all the newer units are started using a pre-programmed start sequence that starts when you turn it on. There is nothing for you to do with the control knob when starting (or stopping), as the programming makes them start and stop in an optimal way to keep them out of the service shop.
Any of the Wallas diesel fired products can run kerosene that is within 12 months of distillation date. Diesel is much less expensive, more powerful and far more stable than kerosene. Diesel can stay in the tank for five years or more if kept in darkness.
All Wallas products need to run their cool down cycle when stopping, which means they need to be shut down using the control panel, NOT by killing power to the stove or heater.
Call weekdays 9 - 5: 206-285-3675 with questions. We are happy to help.
Thanks for using Wallas and Happy Thanksgiving!
Doug at Scan Marine. |
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pcg
Joined: 31 Aug 2018 Posts: 405 City/Region: Sherwood
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Quest
Photos: pcg
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Hunkydory wrote: | is the propane stove cook top also vented like the Wallas?
Jay |
It will be, but not with integral ventilation like the Wallas. In my camper, which I designed and had custom built by Four Wheel Campers, I have a Fantastic roof vent fan directly over the propane stove. In my C-Dory I'm planning on removing the rear starboard side window and installing the same vent in its place, directly above the Dickinson stove top.
Paul
Last edited by pcg on Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:39 pm; edited 7 times in total |
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