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Gene&Mary



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:32 am    Post subject: Electric Outboards Reply with quote

Article in the Seattle Times about GM purchasing a 25% stake in Pure Watercraft, a Seattle company that makes battery powered outboard motors.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/gm-exploring-electric-boats-buys-25-stake-in-engine-maker/
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journey on



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The price I found for the motor is $16,000. So it had better power the C-Dory.

Boris
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Karl Konecny



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pricing is interesting, the motor is $6000, charger $2000, and a single battery pack $8500. The battery pack holds 8.8 kWh so if WOT of 1500 prop RPM is the full 25kW then a single battery pack would fully discharge in 21 minutes. So a practical boat would need multiple battery packs and still would not have the range required for serious cruising.
This could be a nice setup for someone with their own dock on a small lake -- perfect for a sunset cruise.
I'm pleased to hear GM is investing, their technical and manufacturing know-how and commitment to electric vehicle research and development should move this forward in both capability and affordability.
I hope when I need to re-power Nowhere Fast in another 7 to 10 years, electric boat propulsion will be an option.

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SnowTexan



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I last looked into this I had the impression that the electric motor industry wants to convince the consumer that we all have “range anxiety” (their words not mine), and that we don’t actually use our boats to cruise. That may be true in many boats, but not so true for cbrats! I will swap to electric the day I can run 150 miles on a charge AND recharge without spending a night in a marina. It’s coming. A gentleman just did the inside passage on solar at sailboat speeds
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Karl Konecny



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are good specs. I might go for it at 100 miles on a charge. And you are right, it is coming.
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thataway



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree good news--where the rub lies is not the engine, but the batteries. Battery technology is rapidly evolving, and if you are willing to do some self assembly there are relatively cheap batteries which are available.

NOTE: this is for an Illustration, the specific batteries are not suggested. The second link shows the EVE battery, which apparently does not have the bulging issue. Most of these types are rejects--class B cells, but for some purposes work just as well as premium grade.

Will Prowse on cheap batteries.. He is very honest about his feelings--and does not recommend them from this supplier. Please read the comment section!

Here is another take using the EVE 280 hour battery by LithiumSolar,. These are non bulging cells, and again, please read the comments section

Both of these venues have multiple videos on the testing of li batteries and assembly of DIY cells.

I am not advocating that individuals do this type of experiment unless qualified. Note the precautions against arcing or shorting cells.

Remember they are now putting electric engines in airplanes. If you think we C Dory owners have range anxiety--the airplane pilot has a lot more anxiety!

Are LiFePO4 batteries ready for prime time? Some cars are now using them, certainly a significant number of RV's come with these as an option. There are thousands of off grid homes using this type of battery.

With time the costs are going to continue to fall.

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Thataway
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Roamad



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently investigated electric power as well. One of the companies I reached out to was Pure. They were extremely responsive and helpful and worked hard to answer all my questions, including range and speed estimates specific to my 16’ C-Dory. This included a personal call with one of their reps and several followup emails. I was very impressed and I think this company has great prospects. I was inclined to go with them in part because they are a US company.

Ultimately the price and range issues turned me away. Their package would have meant more speed but less range than Torqeedo, and quite a bit more cost. Also, Pure actually discourages customers from charging with solar, which turned me off. Their explanation was only that it would take a lot of panels to charge their batteries. It’s a bit puzzling. Crook
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forrest



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before you invest in any electric outboards you probably should wait awhile to see what type of corrosion and electrolysis that occurs on the rest of the boat of someone who has installed one. Electric motors have a quite strong electric field around them. Not sure how that will affect other metallic parts on your boat with all the salt water. Also it may be a detriment to fishing having the increased field strength surrounding the boat. Be wary.
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thataway



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forrest,
There have been a number of small. electrical boats for many years--Elco, Duffy have been around and I am not aware of any problems. There are many rental fleets as well as private owners. Electric motors on aluminum boats don't seem to be a problem.

There are a number of diesel electric larger boats--submarines, work boats, tugs etc.

With the outboard the leg is to of the water except when running. With our Torqeedo we often took the battery off to charge. we have had that about 8 years and no corrosion, including several year of use in the Florida Keys.

As far as electrical fields, some fish are attracted and some repelled by an electrical field. But Depth finders have been implicated in scaring fish,, others say no problem (ultra sonic)--but there seems to be no issue with trolling motors.
Engine noise with any boat can be an issue, so does any noise on the boat.

It is surprising the number of electric motors designed specifically for electrical inboard use--as well as outboards.
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forrest



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thataway,
I sincerely hope your right but be aware that the field from 140 volts DC at WOT is quite a bit larger than the 12-24 volts in electric trolling motors.
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thataway



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forrest,

Good point;

Some motors will. have a voltage much higher than 140 volts. The ENVOY 150 hp is 350 volts, and they are making up to 300 hp available in the next couple of years.

On the other hand the Duffy line (up to 22') are using 48 volt battery bank--and if and when they go to LI batteries, I suspect they might go higher?

The Elco inboard at 6 hp is using 36 volts, and the 100 HP is using 144 volts. No apparent problems on these boats.

Elco makes electric outboards, and then Run from 24 volts for a 6 hp, up to 96 volts for 50 hp outboards.

One of the major reasons for the higher voltage is to keep the wire size practical.

We will just have to wait and see.
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forrest



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
One of the major reasons for the higher voltage is to keep the wire size practical.


The major reason is the higher the voltage supplied, the faster a DC motor turns. In AC motors the frequency determines speed and raising the voltage lowers the wire size for a given motor.
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forrest



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For clarification, amperage determines wire size, not voltage.
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pcg



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And for further clarification, raising the voltage enables smaller wire size because raising the voltage allows the current to be lowered, for a given power level. volts x amps = watts
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forrest



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's true Paul, for a given power level. The power level is changed when you want to go faster. It isn't as simple as volts x amps = watts. And with that I'm done because I don't remember poop about electricity.
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