Sticky Steering

[sydmargo]

I have a 1995 C-dory 22 with a 1996 90HP Honda 4-Stroke that I have had for 6 months. I love my C-Dory. I am having a problem with the steering, it is hard to steer and it sticks in spots. I have greased the various grease fittings but it still sticks when turning. Is this something that I can repair or should I take it in for repairs? Do I have to take it to Honda dealer? I don't think the steering is a Honda product. I am mechanically inclined but have no literature on how it comes apart. I would appreciate any helpful suggestions. The boat is on a trailer in a campground in Venice, Florida.

[Captains Cat]

[mrw90]

Based on the age of the boat and size of the motor, my guess is that you're running a mechanical (cable driven) steering system. Given that assumption, here's my two cents.

After a period of time (two years, ten years whatever) the cables near the outboard begin to corrode and stick. Once this happens, you can't just take the system apart and repair it. Sometimes, lubricating this area buys you some time, but does not fix the problem. Sooner or later (probably sooner) the steering cables will need to be replaced.

You have a couple of choices in how to best attack this problem. One solution is to replace the mechanical cables with new mechanical cables. This may be easy or hard depending upon whether or not you need to remove the motor to do this. I have a 17' foot Arima that I am working on selling as I wait for a new C-Dory. With this boat there is not enough room in the motor well to get the stiff cable through without moving the motor. The cables cost about $125, you can double or triple that if you need to take it to the shop.

I chose instead to pull out the mechanical system and install a small hydraulic steering system. The BayStar system is a nice package for boats with under 150 HP. I bought it on Ebay for $475. It's very easy to install without moving the motor, as there is no stiff cable to deal with, just flexible tubes for the hydraulic fluid. Hydraulic yield a very smooth and reliable steering system and probably will increase the resale value of your boat by about $400.

P.S. I had to hacksaw the mechanical cables out, which wasn't really a big deal, but I did get to clearly see why I had to replace them as they were corroded inside.

[Falco]

Ditto on mrw90's comments. Stickiness in a cable steering system is almost always attributable to cable deterioration - usually right under the wheel, or secondarily where ever the cable bends. Either swap out the cable (Pendeflex?) or install a hydraulic steering system. Don't delay - when these cables go - they go and you will be left with NO steering. OK on a warm calm summer night with plenty of beer aboard but in a storm...

[KenMcC]

There's some good discussion on that particular subject here.

Link edited by Da Nag

[Almas Only]

Sudmargo:

Here's something which might be of use concerning your steering question:

Lubrication procedure for Teleflex steering on a 2003 CDory Cruiser, powered by Honda 90 of same year. This procedure might not apply to other setups. I’ve posted photos titled “Steering Lube 01-06”, on the C-Brat’s site under Outboards and Systems, detail photos, which begin on page 2. The link to that location is HERE.

There are three possible locations where the Teleflex steering could hang up: the mechanism behind the helm station, the cable from the helm to the motor, and the steering shaft at the motor. Only one of these – the steering shaft – is readily susceptible to lubrication. If problems exist at either of the other two locations, consideration should be given to replacing the entire steering unit, or converting to hydraulic.

Photos 01 and 02 show the port and starboard side connections of the steering system, at the motor.

The port connection (photo 01) consists of the steering shaft, which comes through the large nut attached to the motor’s tilt tube, and the steering rod, which is the connection link between the steering shaft, and the motor. The steering shaft is an integral part of the Teleflex steering system, and the entire point of lubrication is to remove the shaft from the tilt tube so that it can be cleaned and re-lubricated. The steering rod attaches to the steering shaft with a self locking nut. Photo 01 shows the steering shaft fully retracted into the tilt tube, which is the preferred storage position because the shaft is then not exposed to the elements. The steering rod is disconnected from the steering shaft by removing the self locking nut on the bottom of the steering rod, turning the helm until the steering shaft is fully exposed, and then lifting up gently on the steering rod. If anything more than gentle lifting of the steering rod is required to remove it from the steering shaft, loosen the attachment of the steering rod to the motor steering plate, to avoid bending the steering rod. Photo 03 shows the disconnection of the steering rod from the steering shaft, now in fully retracted position. With this disconnection, the motor should freely rotate from full side to side, with light hand pressure on the motor cover. If there is any resistance, apply grease through the fitting located below the motor head, on the front side of the motor shaft enclosure. Use Quicksilver 2-4-c with Teflon, available from Mercury dealers. DON’T USE THIS LUBE ON YOUR TRAILER BEARINGS, OR THEY WILL FAIL. If lubrication doesn’t eliminate the resistance in the motor’s rotating freely while the steering rod is disconnected, see your Honda dealer.

There are two nuts at the starboard side of the tilt tube (see photo 02). The inboard nut, closest to the motor, attaches the tilt tube to the motor housing. Remove this, and you are one big step closer to dropping the motor on the ground! That pretty much leaves the outboard nut as the one you want to turn. So, with a wrench on the inboard to keep it and the threaded portion of the tilt tube from turning, unscrew the outboard nut, as shown in photo 04. Here, the nut has been unscrewed, and pulled back several inches along the Teleflex steering cable. Grab the black steering cable, and pull the assembly directly away from the motor. Photo 05 shows the beginning of this process. Be sure that before you start pulling, the steering shaft is in the fully retracted position, and have a towel ready, because once the end of the steering shaft clears the starboard end of the tilt tube, it wants to lay back against the motor housing. Just wrap the towel around the end of the steering shaft once it is clear, and let it gently assume whatever position it desires. Be careful not to kink the cable while extracting the steering shaft from the tilt tube. It’s pretty stout, so long as just pull it straight back from the tilt tube.

At this point, you are ready to begin the lubrication process. First, remove the o-ring from the inside of the port side tilt tube nut. The ring is visible, and marked, in photo 06, and sits in a groove about ¼ inch in from the face of the nut. Be careful not to scratch metal while removing the ring. Next, clean the inside of the tube by using a wooden dowel to push alcohol soaked pieces of rag all the way through, from one side to the other. Continue until the rags come through clean, and then push a few dry pieces of rag through to remove any residual alcohol. Visually inspect the inside of the tube to confirm that no rag or other debris remains. Be sure to clean the groove in which the o-ring sits.

Next, use alcohol soaked rags to wipe off the steering shaft. If the shaft has deposits which can’t be removed by solvents, gently use 600 grit wet-dry paper and motor oil to smooth them down. Any hard deposits left on the shaft will greatly shorten the life of the new O-ring seal. Clean the shaft after any deposit removal.

Now, liberally apply grease to the steering shaft and into the shaft enclosure through the tilt tube. Again, use the Quicksilver product. DO NOT USE WATERPROOF TRAILER BEARING GREASE, per Teleflex technical. Replace the O-ring with Honda Part Number 91352-ZV5-000. You’re now ready to reinsert the steering shaft through the tilt tube. If necessary, turn the helm to fully retract the steering rod right up against the and of the cable enclosure. Grab the cable enclosure with both hands, push it straight back along it’s axis to avoid bending, and feed the end of the steering shaft through the starboard side tilt tube nut. Let the shaft feed through the tube, and then carefully extend it through the port side nut, being sure that the o-ring stays in place. Extend the steering shaft all the way, and then gently reattach the steering rod to the steering shaft, being careful not to strip the lower threads on the rod. Use a new self locking nut (3/8 – 24 UNF Self Locking, available from Lowes, but check visually to be sure the treads are the same) on the end of the steering rod, and retighten or replace the nut at the other end of the steering rod, if that was loosened in order to allow the rod to be disconnected from the shaft. Liberally grease the threads on the outside of the tilt tube shaft on the starboard side, and pack grease inside the nut attached to the Teleflex cable. Then, using two wrenches, reattach the Teleflex cable on the starboard side. Wipe away excess grease, but leave any in grooves which might help to provide a water seal. If you make this starboard connection before the steering rod has been inserted into the steering shaft on the port side, you’ll have trouble getting the hole in the shaft to line up with the rod.

During normal use, it helps to carry some Quicksilver grease in a little 35 mm photo canister, or whatever else suits your fancy. On a routine basis, turn the helm to fully expose the steering shaft, put on a surgical glove, and use a tissue or rag to wipe off any deposits before they have a chance to really harden, and wear out the o-ring. Then, put a dab of grease on your finger, wipe it along the shaft, and turn the helm to withdraw the shaft across the o-ring. As previously stated, the more you leave the motor with the steering shaft retracted, the longer the o-ring, and your maintenance efforts, will last.

Good luck, and smooth cruising.

Link edited by Da Nag

[Sea Wolf]

Alma's Only-

NICE THOROUGH POST.

I didn't see that anyone above made the mention that the nut at the end of the tilt tube can be replaced with one that has a Zerk fitting so that you can use a grease gun to shoot pressurized greese back into the tilt tube, etc.

Used along with the occasional manual shaft cleaning, the re-application of grease to the shaft, and the practice of turning the motor hard over to minimize the exposure of the cable end when in storage, all these things will greatly extend the life of the cable, seals, and other components.

My mechanic said to "oil" the shaft often, but i'm not sure if he meant "oil" or "lubricate". I'll ask next time at the shop.


Joe.

[CAVU]

Joe,
I owned a 90HP Honda on my previous boat (Arima) for many years and have been through the lube procedure many times. The problem with the lube nut you describe, is the Honda doesn't have enough threads left on the port side to attach it properly. The model I purchased was too wide. Unless there is a thinner one available I don't think they will work on a Honda. Plus you will be trying force grease past the O-ring inside the tilt-tube. Of course Honda could have saved all of us a lot of trouble by using a stainless steel tilt tube at an extra cost of maybe $15.00 or less. In my experience the real problem is caused by rust and corrosion inside the carbon steel tilt-tube.

[Sea Wolf]

Ken-

Good point!

There are actually two different nuts like this available from Davis Instruments from most Marine Equipment Supply Stores. One for the cable, the other for the rod.

Oil for the cable, grease for the rod.

Here's one:

http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/list_marine.asp?grp=m18-1


And here's the other:

http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/marine_product.asp?pnum=00425


Joe.

[Almas Only]

Regarding grease nuts, I tried one Davis says will fit Honda, and it would not fit the 2003 90hp. Perhaps Honda made a change which Davis doesn't know about. At any rate, I had to return the part. So, I think it's back to basics, as least for me.

[sailor-d]

The Davis nut seemed like a good idea to me.
Installed it on my 100hp Yamaha however had to do quite a bit of filing on the lands of the nut to get it to turn enough to seat tightly. I used the supplied plastic plug and found 90 gear oil the ideal lubricant.
The problem that occurred was when the motor is hard over, the washer on the top of the steering shaft where the steering rod enters, contacts the seal/wiper in the nut and causes it to tilt and eventually ride out on the steering shaft.
Of course my fancy nut is now non-returnable because I have filed the sides off. I had considered sending Davis a nastygram but just never bothered.
I went back the the original Yamaha plastic nut with O ring which I unscrew regularly and anoint the shaft with 90 oil.
The other method was a lubricator nut on the other side of the steering tube but it did not leave enough threads free for my comfort to re-attach the steering cable nut.

Cheers - Dave

[Sea Wolf]

Aalma's Only and Sailor-d-

Sorry to hear about your difficulties with the two lube systems. Mine came installed with the used boat, and were transferred to the new motor by the installation mechanic (Stuart) at Gunther's outboards.

He told me to oil them frequently, including just a simple external application of oil on the shaft.

He probably also tilted the cable up when the motor well was empty between motor transfers, and poured oil down the cable, but I don't remember him saying that, but I'm 63, getting older, and once in a while something slips by!

You'd think that Teleflex, realizing the importance of lubrication here, would provide for lubrication points in their OEM set up!

BTW- Excellent text and photo from Alma's only as per post above. The only possible improvement would be to embed the illustrative photos in the text, but looking them over both before and after reading the text over a few times makes for a very clear set of instructions! Great Job!!!!

Joe.

[Falco]

Two other observations, after having reviewed this updated thread:

1. I have never heard of anything other than waterproof grease for lubricating steering cables. This is what Teleflex (not "Pendeflex" in my earlier post - duh) recommends. The idea is to create a barrier to moisture between the elements and the cable. You will not get this with 90W gear lube which readily mixes with water to form an emulsion.

2. When lubricating a steering cable using the grease fittings discussed in this post (whether installed ex-factory or by the manufacturer as on my Suzis), it's important to be sure the cable is fully retracted into its sleeve before you apply the grease. In some cases, leaving the cable/arm extended and applying grease will "lock up" the assembly.

Oh, one other thing. Be sure those steering fittings at the cable assembly at the outboard are snug. Guess what happens when one comes loose during operation of the boat (!). This should be part of the regular cable (and engine) lube routine.

[Almas Only]

Bucking Coho:

Sorry for the confusion regarding "waterproof" properties of the grease to be used on the Teleflex steering system.

The statement regarding waterproof grease was "DO NOT USE WATERPROOF TRAILER BEARING GREASE, per Teleflex technical." The caution was not meant to imply that a grease which cannot tolerate water should be used, but merely to warn against using the stuff that's usually green, and is marketed specifically as a trailer bearing grease. Teleflex technical told me something to the effect of "it's too abrasive for the steering shaft, and is probably the worst thing you could use." Don't know if that's true, or not, but just passing it along.

The Mercury 2-4-C which I'd mentioned is sold by Mercury as a "marine lubricant" for "Steering systems, cable linkages, ... prop shafts ...", and as being "Extremely water resistant. Won't break down when mixed with water."

As an aside, and just to add to the confusion, Mercury also says 2-4-C can be used on trailer bearings. However, our local Mercury and Load Rite dealer, gave an emphatic "NO" on trailer bearings. He said that they were so impressed with 2-4-C for other marine applications that they started using it in trailer bearings, until they got calls from customers a few miles away, complaining that their wheel bearings had failed. The dealer said something about the 2-4-C being too "slick" for trailer bearing use, and in some applications allowing the balls or rollers in the bearing to slide, rather than rotate.

Confusing, yes, but for whatever it's worth, I use waterproof trailer bearing grease on the trailer bearings, and 2-4-C everywhere else. Two grease guns, and a little labeling required, but other than that, not a big deal.

[Jack in Alaska]

I purchased the zerk equipped nut for my 1997 90 HP Honda. The threads were not the same. Could not find a nut to fit so I took the one I had to a machine shop and had the threads recut for $65. Installed it and pumped in some grease. That worked well for one season and then the seal in the nut allowed the grease to squirt out on the ground even with minimal grease pressure.
So much for that idea.
Bought a hydraulic system, cut the old cable one out and the steering has been just great ever since.

I did learn that in an emergency that removing the nut and spraying TRIFLO silicone oil into the tilt tube would free up the system when it was sticky or jerky. That TRIFLO is a wonderful product IMHO.