The C-Brats Forum Index
HomeForumsMy TopicsCalendarEvent SignupsMemberlistOur C-DorysThe Brat MapPhotos

Heads up - LiFePO4 and ABYC recommendations
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> Electrical and Wiring
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 19448
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

croakz wrote:
Just remember those Chinns, Ampere, and Zooms don't have low temp charging protection. So a good deal, for the right use cases.


Amazon does have a low temp Chin's battery for $659.99Here on Amazon. You are paying considerably more for the low temp (probably a heater circuit). But it is available.

I would think that most of the use in a C Dory would be in temperature greater than 32*F. (Think of putting the battery inside the cabin.) Thus probably not really an issue for most of our boaters.

_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
robhwa



Joined: 04 Dec 2013
Posts: 219
City/Region: Anderson Island
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Problemadela
Photos: Problemadela
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

croakz wrote:
Just remember those Chinns, Ampere, and Zooms don't have low temp charging protection. So a good deal, for the right use cases.

My Li battery BMSs will have low temperature charging PROTECTION, as in they won't charge below 32F (battery temperature). Don't you mean these don't have a heating circuit that will heat the battery internally when temps drop low enough that the BMS stops the battery charging? Interesting, the battery can still discharge just fine below freezing. It is the charging that the BMS stops. Given in a C-Dory that the battery case will usually be sitting on a sole that is hopefully sitting in liquid water, dropping below freezing hasn't ever happened in my C-Dory 22 (batteries below sink), even when outside temps drop below freezing. In my camper and in our mountain yurt, the BMS does shut down charging when it gets really, really cold. It'd be nice to have a battery that has an internal heater in that case, which are available but more expensive than what I have now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
journey on



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3500
City/Region: Valley Centre
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: journey on
Photos: Journey On
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'll keep going.

First of all, Chin li batteries are only rated for 100 amps and Honda Accord starters (as far as I know) use at least 150 amps. So one needs to have a lead acid battery for starting. That's one reason for a lead acid battery.

Next, Journey On has a 150 hp Honda engine with 40 amps of output, max. But a li 100 ah battery will take up to 100 amps in charging. This means that the Honda alternator will be putting all it's output into charging the li battery with nothing left over for the house loads, such as the MFD, fan, wipers, etc. Therefore one has to limit the charge current for the li battery. I selected a Regony 20 amp charger, assuming 20 amps would charge the lead acid battery and run the house loads. Regony was the cheapest, without bluetooth. Turns out I installed a Balmar SG2000 monitor which has the option for bluetooth, so if I want I can get a remote reading for the battery state. In a C-Dory, I don't think I'll need anything remote.

Now the battery charger has a li setting, which charges until a fixed voltage is reached (~14.6 Vdc). The battery charger then disconnects, which is kinda a shock on the alternator Indeed, if there are no house loads, it'll blow the alternator. Fortuitously, if the lead acid battery is connected it'll take the surge and everything will continue to operate happily. That's another reason for a lead acid battery.

Now, how does one control to DC-DC charger? Two ways. One there is a line coming out of the charger which has to be connected to a 12 Vdc source in order that the charger will operate. This prevents the starting battery from being drained in order to charge the li battery. One can connect it to the alternator output or as I have, through a switch on the dash. All I have to do is remember to throw that switch and I'm betting Judy will remind me. In addition there's a line coming out of the charger that, when activated, limits the charger to operate at 1/2 the normal charge. Again that's a switch in the dash, used if the alternator is struggling to deliver adequate voltage.

And i live in San Diego County where it never freezes so low temperature charging doesn't concern me..

Wish me luck.

Boris
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
T.R. Bauer



Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 1497
City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My poor little honda rectifiers only make 10 amps.....they are almost always giving all they got. They must be designed to do that?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
journey on



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3500
City/Region: Valley Centre
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: journey on
Photos: Journey On
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume that what you're saying is that the alternator on the motor is rated for 10 amps @ 12 volts. If the load is more than 10 amps, the voltage will drop. Until you remove the load. Is that what you are saying?

In my example above, if the alternator is feeding loads that require more than 40 amps, the voltage will drop and cause the starting battery to supply the extra current. And run down.

Boris
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Marco Flamingo



Joined: 09 Jul 2015
Posts: 1058
City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Limpet
Photos: Limpet
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will Prowse just did a teardown of a new "marine grade" LiFePO, although a manufacturer calling a battery marine doesn't necessarily mean it meets one's needs. But at 206 amp hours and $1K each, thats getting really competitive with Flooded Lead Acid (and Mr. Prowse seems to think they are better than Battle Born).

I can't see the application on my little C-Dory, but I'm almost hoping the batteries will fail on my trawler. Very Happy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJmIS5tmzPU
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
croakz



Joined: 21 Sep 2020
Posts: 37
City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1997
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Jolly Blue
Photos: Jolly Blue
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marco Flamingo wrote:
Will Prowse just did a teardown of a new "marine grade" LiFePO, although a manufacturer calling a battery marine doesn't necessarily mean it meets one's needs. But at 206 amp hours and $1K each, thats getting really competitive with Flooded Lead Acid (and Mr. Prowse seems to think they are better than Battle Born).

I can't see the application on my little C-Dory, but I'm almost hoping the batteries will fail on my trawler. Very Happy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJmIS5tmzPU


I love the size of the SOK Marine battery too. 13.4" long, where my Expert Power 200ah is 20.6" long! And the SOK is not even 1" taller or wider.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
T.R. Bauer



Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 1497
City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

journey on wrote:
I assume that what you're saying is that the alternator on the motor is rated for 10 amps @ 12 volts. If the load is more than 10 amps, the voltage will drop. Until you remove the load. Is that what you are saying?

In my example above, if the alternator is feeding loads that require more than 40 amps, the voltage will drop and cause the starting battery to supply the extra current. And run down.

Boris


Yup. It's almost always giving it all it has.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> Electrical and Wiring All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
     Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Page generation time: 0.0536s (PHP: 77% - SQL: 23%) - SQL queries: 26 - GZIP disabled - Debug on