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Honda 135 outboard on a 25'
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VanIslander



Joined: 02 Oct 2018
Posts: 11
City/Region: Victoria
State or Province: BC
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:58 pm    Post subject: CD 25 Prop Reply with quote

Hi, the 135 Honda is a great motor. It's operating range at WOT is 5000-6000 RPM. I think if you are only getting 5000 you are over-propped which affects not only boat function but longevity of the motor. There are different philosophies around what your target should be. I'd be inclined to prop it for your heaviest loads so that you are in the 5500 RPM or higher range, as long as you don't exceed 6000 when lightly loaded. Best of luck with your new boat!

Charles
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is that with a light or heavy boat?
. Light boat.

Quote:
What prop do you have on?
. 15" pitch SS.
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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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smckean (Tosca)



Joined: 18 Jan 2014
Posts: 974
City/Region: Guemes Island (Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Tosca
Photos: Tosca
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The only curious thing is that WOT is barely over 5000 rpm, but maybe that's normal?

I agree with VanIslander; you may be putting stress on that 135.

It's all going to depend on your prop pitch. If the pitch is high (perhaps 16", 17", more?), then, yes, the boat may hit 29 MPH, but the engine is straining (as evidenced by 5000 RPM at WOT).

Frankly, I can't believe your CD25 isn't under powered with 135 horses. I now have 200 horses and definitively felt my old 150 was not enough. Now, this is with a fairly heavy boat (but if you had 4 big men on it, then you were loaded heavy by definition!). Maybe a better test is how quickly you get up on plane.

Again.....I think your answer is to be found when your determine your prop pitch. 5000 at WOT is marginal at best.

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Purchased Tosca in 2014
Re-powered to Yammi 200 in 2015
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johnr



Joined: 08 Apr 2007
Posts: 308
City/Region: Bellingham
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Stillwater
Photos: Surf Scoter
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="smckean (Tosca)"]
Quote:
The only curious thing is that WOT is barely over

Frankly, I can't believe your CD25 isn't under powered with 135 horses. I now have 200 horses and definitively felt my old 150 was not enough. Now, this is with a fairly heavy boat (but if you had 4 big men on it, then you were loaded heavy by definition!). Maybe a better test is how quickly you get up on plane.


It's definitely not underpowered as far as I'm concerned. It's a bit quicker, in fact, than my C-Dory 22 with a 90. That it was underpowered was certainly a concern when I was considering he purchase of the boat. But, within minutes, the sea trial let me know that I had nothing to worry about.

As far as getting it up to plane...I've owned 2 C-Dorys and ridden in lots of them. I've yet to figure out exactly when they go on plane and when they are not.
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journey on



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3593
City/Region: Valley Centre
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: journey on
Photos: Journey On
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Journey On has a 150 Honda. The factory tried to sell me a 135 Honda. I opted for a 150 because of resale, people would just look at the number 135 and say "oh no I want a --- hp (fill in the blank.)

First of all, the only difference between the 150 and 135 is a change in the camshaft setting at 4000 rpm through hydraulic actuation, that's all. And at 4000 rpm Journey On is going 15 knts, a nice cruising speed. I have got Journey On up to 25 knts on a SMOOTH San Diego Bay, and it was a rough ride. I cruise at 15 knts, with bursts up to 20 if its like glass. And that's with Journey On loaded for cruising by Judy who knows how to stuff everything in.

So that brings me to my feelings regarding hanging 200 hp on the back of a 25 ft C-Dory. First of all it's 50 lbs more than the Honda and the C-Dory doesn't need more weight aft. Second, as stated above, realistic cruising isn't at WOT; you're lucky if you see 17 knts. I've brought Journey On back from Santa Cruz Island, downwind in the Santa Barbara Channel with the wind at 20 knts and I was impressed with the 12 knts we did make.

So, 135 is enough, 150 is for resale and 200 is for show.

Also, please note the above speed is in knts, which sailors use. Mph is a bigger number but I use knts.

Boris
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Also, please note the above speed is in knts, which sailors use. Mph is a bigger number but I use knts.


Just an aside (and I agree with Boris on power, but there are times in flat water when it is nice to be able to make higher speeds).

For many East Coast, Gulf Coast and Inland sailors, the mileage on rivers and intra costal water ways are in statute miles. Off shore in nautical miles.

Even the "distance between US ports" gives the inland waters in statute miles and offshore in Nautical miles. In the coastal ports, it will give both, since some go offshore and some stay in the ICW.
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Avidmagnum12



Joined: 23 Mar 2013
Posts: 668
City/Region: Ocklawaha
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Otter
Photos: C-Otter
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thoughts on horse power. It depends on how you use your 25. We travel with a LOT of weight on our boat. We always have our kicker, a full freezer, a Honda generator and a air conditioner. On Isle Royal trips we carry supplies for 5 weeks plus downriggers and other fishing gear. We may also carry a tender and tender motor. 50 plus mile crossings are not uncommon and speed is important to us at times. Our Yamaha 200 weight is not much different than a 150 Honda. It’s great to have an engine the allows us to get on plane easily and cruse at 25 to 30 mph without have to run at high RPMs. We have a fuel flow meter and we get our best cruising economy at that speed.

This is my second 200 on the boat. My last one was a 2 stroke and my wife hated the smell. When I first got the C-Otter and the boat was light it may have been overkill. The way I use it now it’s just perfect.

We don’t all use our boats the same and horse power needs are not universal.

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Tom and Joyce Schulke

2011 CD 25 "C-Otter" 07/2015 to present
2011 CD 25 "My Girl" 06/2015 renamed C-Otter
2004 CD 22 Commuter "Out2C" 03/10 to 06/15
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johnr



Joined: 08 Apr 2007
Posts: 308
City/Region: Bellingham
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Stillwater
Photos: Surf Scoter
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avidmagnum12 wrote:
My thoughts on horse power. It depends on how you use your 25. We travel with a LOT of weight on our boat. We always have our kicker, a full freezer, a Honda generator and a air conditioner. On Isle Royal trips we carry supplies for 5 weeks plus downriggers and other fishing gear. We may also carry a tender and tender motor. 50 plus mile crossings are not uncommon and speed is important to us at times. Our Yamaha 200 weight is not much different than a 150 Honda. It’s great to have an engine the allows us to get on plane easily and cruse at 25 to 30 mph without have to run at high RPMs. We have a fuel flow meter and we get our best cruising economy at that speed.

This is my second 200 on the boat. My last one was a 2 stroke and my wife hated the smell. When I first got the C-Otter and the boat was light it may have been overkill. The way I use it now it’s just perfect.

We don’t all use our boats the same and horse power needs are not universal.


Having spent my formative year in coastal Louisiana, I know many Cajuns who would scoff at putting a motor that small on a boat that big.
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smckean (Tosca)



Joined: 18 Jan 2014
Posts: 974
City/Region: Guemes Island (Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Tosca
Photos: Tosca
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
First of all it's 50 lbs more than the Honda and the C-Dory doesn't need more weight aft.

When I replaced my 2005 vintage Honda 150 with the 2014 Yamaha 200, the new engine only weighed 5 pounds more than the old one.

P.S. Earlier I stated that 4 adults on board is a heavily loaded boat by definition. Having thought about it some more, I retract that statement. Since most boats usually have 2 adults on board, 4 adults is only 350 to 400 more pounds. A full tank of fuel alone is about that same weight. Like Avidmagnum12, if I think of all the weight I load onto the boat when I cruise, a lightly loaded boat with 4 adults likely weighs less than a fully loaded boat with 2 adults. YMMV.
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2652
City/Region: Cokeville, Wyoming
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunkydory
Photos: Hunkydory-Jay-and-Jolee
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On our extended Alaska cruises just the extra fuel, food, water, generator, dingy & motor put in an extra 1000 lbs. I agree, a extra person or two without all that, hardly compares & the difference in new more hp motor weight compared to the older heavy less hp motors really isn’t enough weight difference to not go with higher hp, when repowering. To me the benefits of more hp easily out way the little bit of weight difference. In my opinion the only real negative being the extra cost.

When repowering time came for us the several thousand extra dollar cost was eased by knowing all our future boating would be done at a much more quiet lower rpm, which is a very big deal to us. The power if needed a huge benefit too. Where the majority of our time is spent at displacement speed & when on plane 15 to 18 mph is pretty much the optimum for most conditions, increased speed from the additional hp for the occasional time it could be achieved was very low on the consideration for us going up in hp, though I like others, appreciate the ability to do so if needed or desired.

Unlike Boris & many of the old sailors here, I think in & for the most part use miles for speed & distance as boating came late in life & I’m not considering ocean crossing, so see very little need to do otherwise. I also don’t mind doing the small mental conversion jiggling, when others prefer knots.

Jay

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smckean (Tosca)



Joined: 18 Jan 2014
Posts: 974
City/Region: Guemes Island (Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Tosca
Photos: Tosca
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
....knowing all our future boating would be done at a much more quiet lower rpm.....

Totally agree. Here's my experience with the 200 Yamaha on my CD25 cruiser moderately loaded on flat-ish or light chop water:

I'm well on plane at 3600 RPM and achieve a speed of 20 MPH getting my best on-plane gas mileage of ~3.3 MPG.

My favorite position is at 4200 RPM achieving a speed of 26 MPH consuming ~3.0 MPG.

After 4200 RPM the engine doesn't sound as happy and is quite a bit louder.

P.S. Most of the time I run at either 1300 RPM doing hull speed, or 1800 RPM pushing the speed up to ~8 MPH (I find the boat is a bit more stable when running just above hull speed). I get 5 to 6 MPG at those RPMs. All this is with a 15" pitch prop. (Frankly, if someone gave me $500, I'd drop to a 13" prop and sacrifice some of that speed for even more torque.)
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