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alainP
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 195
City/Region: TUCSON
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: deja la
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 Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2023 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| Colby, is the number stamped on your calipers #46304? |
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colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4548
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2023 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Bob,
I don't think the pressure is asymmetrical, as the trailer feels to be tracking straight when I apply the brakes. I didn't notice rounded out holes on the two old calipers that I rebuilt. (The ones that had the pins break earlier.) Not sure where Dexter calipers are built, but I think regardless, these appeared to be heavy duty and well made.
Alain, I'll look and see what number is stamped on the calipers when I work on them later this week or next. Colby |
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colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4548
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2023 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| alainP wrote: | | Colby, is the number stamped on your calipers #46304? |
Hi Alain,
The number on my calipers is 89-135. They are basically referred to as DB-35 calipers.
I did email Dexter and I'll share what and if I get a response. I did check the wheel bearings on that side of the trailer and while I think they were within limits, I did tighten the bearing nut up one space on the cotter key. (Pretty much finger tight without needing a wrench to go any tighter.) There is no freeplay now in one of the axles and very little in the other. I'll see what happens over the next couple of trips, but nothing that will add up to more than a thousand miles the rest of this year. Colby |
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alainP
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 195
City/Region: TUCSON
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: deja la
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2023 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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We do have diferent calipers, that would explain why we have different problems.
On this last trip to Lake superior I somehow lost one inner brake pad, the aluminum piston melted itself away when pushed all the way to the steel rotor and brake fuid was squirting out.
Fortunatly i had a spare caliper w/pads and a quart of brake fluid in the truck. I I got to know some really nice people in Dumas Tx, |
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colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4548
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2023 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| alainP wrote: | We do have diferent calipers, that would explain why we have different problems.
On this last trip to Lake superior I somehow lost one inner brake pad, the aluminum piston melted itself away when pushed all the way to the steel rotor and brake fuid was squirting out.
Fortunatly i had a spare caliper w/pads and a quart of brake fluid in the truck. I I got to know some really nice people in Dumas Tx, |
Would be interesting to know how that happened... While the electric over hydraulic disc are nice brakes, the expense is already proving to far exceed just plain old electric brakes. Not to mention the time involved to repair them. IOW, they are a real PITA at times! I never had this much issue with all electric. The biggest disadvantage with all electric is you have to pull the wheel and drum to inspect the shoes!  Colby |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20810
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2023 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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It has been my experience with two trailers with E/H brakes, that we had no issues with the brakes. It sounds like you both had defective parts. I sent back the defective parts which came with the set I installed. I had professionals install the other. Some of these parts come from China....need I say anything more?
_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4548
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2023 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| thataway wrote: | | It has been my experience with two trailers with E/H brakes, that we had no issues with the brakes. It sounds like you both had defective parts. I sent back the defective parts which came with the set I installed. I had professionals install the other. Some of these parts come from China....need I say anything more? |
Hi Bob,
What kind of mileage do you put on your trailers? I'm putting about 10,000 miles a year on mine. And this isn't just one item or instance. A lot of stuff comes from China. Some good, some bad. I can say the same about domestic stuff as well. I'm a little confused in that you say you've had no issue with brakes, but that you sent back the defective parts that came with the set you installed.... I've also seen problems with professionally? installed components as well. In fact, when it comes to brakes and bearings, I'd just as soon trust my own work.  I"m still at a lost as to why the calipers on the right side have been presenting the problem. The first set were UDF, I think. This set are Dexter. The left side are still the original calipers, and they haven't presented any problems yet. Other than all sets continue to have the anti-rattle spring fall out. (But that is due to a lousy design I believe) The thing with the tandem axle trailer is the amount of side torque placed on the wheels when turning tightly in parking spaces. I'm not sure if that might have something to do with it or not. It will be interesting to see if tightening up the free play in the bearings prevents the slider pin bushings from coming out again. Only time will tell. But the free play I had was reasonable. (Of course that depends on which "professional" advice you follow.  ) (Some say to tighten the bearings up without any free play, some say to back off bearing nut and then turn back finger tight only. And then a little free play in the end is ok.) I've always torqued my bearings to seat them, then back off the nut, and then just finger tighten it back to where I can get the cotter pin thru the holes. When I tightened the bearings up recently, it only involved turning the nut in one cotter pin space. Or about 1/4 inch rotation of the nut. The bushings appear to fit tight in the holes, and the sealing lips appear to be positioned properly. I believe most automobile calipers have a metal sleeve that the slider pin goes through. There is no metal sleeve on these, so the pin has to slide inside the rubber bushing, which is fairly tight on it. That could be "ratcheting" the bushing out, however, again it's only happening on the one side, which is weird. Colby |
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T.R. Bauer
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 1726
City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2023 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| thataway wrote: | | It has been my experience with two trailers with E/H brakes, that we had no issues with the brakes. It sounds like you both had defective parts. I sent back the defective parts which came with the set I installed. I had professionals install the other. Some of these parts come from China....need I say anything more? |
Not really. |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20810
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2023 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm putting about 10,000 miles a year on mine. And this isn't just one item or instance. A lot of stuff comes from China. Some good, some bad. I can say the same about domestic stuff as well. I'm a little confused in that you say you've had no issue with brakes, but that you sent back the defective parts that came with the set you installed... |
No Colby, I don't tow over 10,000 miles a year--one year I did tow about 8,000 miles. I have been towing boat trailers since 1956. Not many folks in their 80's do a lot of boat trailering.
Not sure why you are confused. It was obvious when look at the castings, that they were not machined properly. So I sent them back before I installed them. I said specifically E/H brakes--I have had issues with surge brakes.
I rarely see goods made in China which can equal what is produced in the USA, Germany, and a number of other places. For instance camera lenses, knives, etc. Much of SS from China, rust, and are really not really 316. Often Chinese junk looks as good as the ones built in the US, but they don't have the longevity.
It sounds like you are properly tensioning the spindle nut. The way I do boat trailers is to torque the nut to 50 ft/lbs, to be sure the hub/bearings are well seated on the spindle, Then back off about 1/4 turn, and then tighten finger tight, checking to be sure there is NO end play. The wheel should spin freely. Also watch for disc/calipers drag.
I am surprised you don't use tire pressure and temperature monitors on your wheels. (Since you have a newer truck, it should have the tire pressure monitor and built in for the correct trailer sensors.). The TPMS is not all that expensive, and can be life saving let alone saving damage to the trailer. I also stop every 2 hours, check trailer hitch, State of the motor, and all straps and tie downs, as well as temp of discs or drums and hubs with an IR thermometer.
I don't believe that there is enough scrubbing effect with a 2 axle trailer from those times, when you are making sharp turns to cause any brake issues. In any case, there should be no play on the bearings/spindle/hub to cause brake issues.
I don't even pretend to know more than the trailer professionals I use. They have 3 mechanics working full time on repair of trailers--often brake issues. |
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colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4548
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2023 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I rarely see goods made in China which can equal what is produced in the USA, Germany, and a number of other places. For instance camera lenses, knives, etc. Much of SS from China, rust, and are really not really 316. Often Chinese junk looks as good as the ones built in the US, but they don't have the longevity. |
Hi Bob,
Interesting you bring up SS from China. China does produce most of the stainless steel globally, and I think it depends upon which grade you get as to how it holds up. We live in a global market, and rather we like it or not, China is one of the major producers of goods in that market. As an example, I believe my Carlisle Tires are actually made in China. I have had much better luck with them than the Goodyears so many rave about. I agree a lot of stuff from China is inferior. But they also produce some good stuff as well. I guess I'm just not willing to badmouth everything that's made in China. So much stuff we purchase that may be put together in the USA, has parts that come from the global markets.
| Quote: | | It sounds like you are properly tensioning the spindle nut. The way I do boat trailers is to torque the nut to 50 ft/lbs, to be sure the hub/bearings are well seated on the spindle, Then back off about 1/4 turn, and then tighten finger tight, checking to be sure there is NO end play. The wheel should spin freely. Also watch for disc/calipers drag. |
Looks like we learned or gained pretty much the same experience in working with hubs and bearings. Difference is, I'm in the camp that believe it's ok to have a very small bit of end play, if the bearing nut has been tightened as we both have suggested. (Finger tight, after torquing to set the bearing and race.)
| Quote: | | I am surprised you don't use tire pressure and temperature monitors on your wheels. (Since you have a newer truck, it should have the tire pressure monitor and built in for the correct trailer sensors.). The TPMS is not all that expensive, and can be life saving let alone saving damage to the trailer. I also stop every 2 hours, check trailer hitch, State of the motor, and all straps and tie downs, as well as temp oif discs or drums and hubs with an IR thermometer. |
I've given some thought to adding the TPMS to my trailer. I don't believe my truck is able to add on to it's current system, but don't really know. However, it is an added expense that I'm just not willing to expend on. If it was an easy and inexpensive addition to my truck's current system I might be more inclined to add it. However, like you, I routinely check bearing and wheel temps at every stop. Sometimes that's more often than every two hours. I also check the calipers now.  And I'm constantly watching in my rearview mirrors. I've gotten along just fine without the TPMS for the past 45 years of towing trailers, and guess I just don't feel it's a life and death necessity. Maybe someday it'll be on my wish list, but not for now...
| Quote: | I don't even pretend to know more than the trailer professionals I use. They have 3 mechanics working full time on repair of trailers--often brake issues.
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Glad you have mechanics you trust. I've dealt with too many that I had to "complete" the job later, or fix something they messed up. I'm not saying I know more than a certified mechanic. It's rather they are certified that's questionable. Colby |
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T.R. Bauer
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 1726
City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2023 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| From my experience working in the RV world in a different life, you can be rest assured you are getting the least experienced guy they have working on your trailer bearings, your brakes, and changing your generator/coach oil...basically you're getting the lot boy with a key to a toolbox. Even with that said, it still turns out fine since that stuff is so simple....at least mostly. BTW Colby, I agree with you on the end play - a little is probably a good thing as when parts heat up and expand, they can become too tight without it. I also suspect Bob's method still has end play when it's all said and done with everything seated since we are talking about finger tight. Too much endplay or too little accelerates wear and tear.....I hate trailers! |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20810
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Colby there are good TPMS for under $200, and very good to excellent at user $300. A Tank of fuel for the C Dory 25 costs????. The F 150 from 2021 on have the circuit for the TPMS, and you should have a 12 pin connector near the 7 pin connector for the Trailer. This allows both trailer Camera. I used a separate camera system when towing the C Dory 25; One camera on the Yukon top and one on the cabin house, so I could see what is going on with the traffic right behind the trailer, and that traffic which may want to pass.
T.R. Bauer, I have owned RV's almost continuously since 1962 and have yet to find an RV dealer, whose work I can trust 100 %. I use a solo RV systems maintenance guy who does an excellent job, but he is very close to retirement...
One dealer / large RV service center has ding's 3 of my RVs. If I have to use them, then I walk around with the service manager to photograph the RV before I turn over the Keys. It is getting worse in the RV World, the few brands I thought I could trust, (Allegro, and Monaco/ Holiday Rambler) have been bought out by one of the large Builders, and I am not going to spend a couple of million on a Provost or Marathon. |
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colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4548
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
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| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Colby there are good TPMS for under $200, and very good to excellent at user $300. A Tank of fuel for the C Dory 25 costs????. The F 150 from 2021 on have the circuit for the TPMS, and you should have a 12 pin connector near the 7 pin connector for the Trailer. |
Yep, that tank of fuel right now in my area costs anywhere between $339 to $359. Can't go with out it. I can go without the TPMS.  I've got the 2019 F150. I just have the 4 pin and 7 pin connectors, so doesn't look like I have the additional hardware to add in a trailer TPMS... And I don't really want another screen sitting on top the dash...Colby |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20810
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="colbysmith"
Yep, that tank of fuel right now in my area costs anywhere between $339 to $359. Can't go with out it. I can go without the TPMS. I've got the 2019 F150. I just have the 4 pin and 7 pin connectors, so doesn't look like I have the additional hardware to add in a trailer TPMS... And I don't really want another screen sitting on top the dash...Colby[/quote]
You probably have another set of 2 pins for the trailer camera which was available for the 2019 with the trailer towing package from the factory. The 12 pin is the TPSM for the trailer--and that was not available for the 2021 pickups.
Well that is not much of an excuse. On my 2020 F250, I had two "banks" gauges on the A pillar, and the Nav screen on the built in GPS, a 7" monitor for the back of the boat camera, the TPMS system monitor (about 4" screen), plus a specific GPS showing camp grounds, truck stops etc, with programed parameters for the height and width of the truck and trailer.
My sprinter RV, has two 7" GPS (one the same RV information, the other a Garmin). The diagnostic program monitor for the Diesel Mercedes sprinter chassis is about 7", and then there is the TPMS for the trailer. All of this is mounted a 1/2" piece of oak 6" wide and painted the same grey color of the dashboard. It is great to have all of this information just below your line of sight going down the road. Far better than looking at a built in pad of my new Ford Explorer. (only rated for about 6,000 lbs, but with tow package--no. TPMS. Even worse is looking down at an I pad or I phone. (Brand names specifically used.) |
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Avidmagnum12
Joined: 23 Mar 2013
Posts: 669
City/Region: Ocklawaha
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Otter
Photos: C-Otter
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Since I started this string I have put thousands of miles on the trailer with no more problems. My calipers are Tiedown 46304A.They seem to have brass bushings….no plastic. Blue lock tight seems to work so far but I check the pins often anyway.
Tires…..I think it’s more important to look at rating rather than brand. Goodyear makes standard trailer times and higher rated tires. The speed rating on Goodyear Endurance tires is N meaning 87 MPH. Carlisle also makes a N rated tire. Like most other tire companies they also manufacture tires that are rated to only 65mph. With the miles that I tow yearly, the weight of the boat and some of the rough roads only N rated tires will do. If one is only towing a short distance or a light boat to the ramp almost any trailer tire will do.
TPMS…..Do you absolutely need one? That’s your call. Mine paid for itself the first year I had it. Ran over a nail. Even a N rated tire can get a flat. I don’t stare at my monitor but when the alarm goes off it gets my attention. Slow leak so I was able to add air to get me the short distance home. But I probably would not have noticed it till the smoke got my attention. Tire would have been ruined and the other tire on that side would have been over it’s rating. Two tires to replace? $$$
Yes Colby….trailer’s can be a frustrating pain but there’s no other option for what we do. I trust that your issues will be soon resolved. See you on the Cumberland.
_________________
Tom and Joyce Schulke
2011 CD 25 "C-Otter" 07/2015 to present
2011 CD 25 "My Girl" 06/2015 renamed C-Otter
2004 CD 22 Commuter "Out2C" 03/10 to 06/15 |
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