Maintenance for c-dory kept in slip

gary allen

I'm wondering if anyone has tips for maintaining a 22 cruiser to be kept in a slat water slip--Bodega Bay, CA. Especially flushing my twin Honda 50 Motors. How often do they really need to be flushed? Best technique to prevent salt water intrusion while flushing?

Also, maybe a silly question...I'm a little worried about our heavy winter rains here. What's the best technique to keep the cockpit from filling with water...

And any other advice welcome.

Thanks,

Gary

Sea Wolf · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:29 pm Post subject:

Gary- I keep my boat in a slip too (from October through mid-May when I switch it with our pontoon boat for the Summer), but it's in fresh water (Shasta Lake), and covered. But here's how I'd deal with your two problems:

Flushing: ****************************************************

I'd get one of those flushing bags recently discussed here on this site and flush the engines one at a time (unless you want to buy two bags) with fresh water from the dock (I assume you have fresh water available) using a hose/outlet available nearby. Just fit the bag down over the shaft, start the motor, and run fresh water into the bag and flush the salt water out of the bag and engine.

You probably also have a hose fitting on the engine, but leaving the motor shaft down in the water with the hose attached would still bring salt water up via the pump.

At the end of the flushing period, I'd simultaneously tilt the motor up and shut it off, being sure not to run the motor dry for any length of time. If the motor tilts high enough to stay clear of the water and waves, just leave it out of the water, remove the bag, and proceed with the other motor.

If salt water contact is probable, then you have to either live with it, which would affect the lower end mostly (electrolysis), or leave the bag on and tie it up at a level so as to leave freshwater in it with the top high enough to keep salt water out. I'm not sure if the bags are deep enough for this.

Occasionally, I'd add a salt flushing/removing agent like Salt Away in the bag to clean out the motor, but not leave the solution it in the bag afterward unless you talk with a Technical Rep from the Salt Away manufacturer to see if it is advised. Might be corrosive in it's own way.

If the motors don't quite clear the water, see what you can do to shift some weight around inside the boat and raise the stern.

One of the culprits to getting the tails of the motors to clear the water is the inclination of the transom backwards.

If you must leave the lower units in contact with salt water, definitely try not to have shore power attached for continuous battery charging, as the system grounds the entire boat, including the motors, and stay voltage electrolysis in the harbor can eat up metal many times faster than just leaving the units in place in the water. Grounding the engines makes them into giant charged electrodes! Be sure to watch the corrosion on your sacrificial electrodes in any case.

In dealing with this problem, you can see the value of a Hydro-Hoist in totally floating the boat up clear and out of the water, which also solves the bottom paint issue.

You can also see the simplicity of keeping the boat in dry storage on the trailer, especially in a covered inside enviornment.

Rain Water Collection: *****************************************

This is one of the ALL-TIME CLASSIC C-Dory Discussion Issues.

Water, including rainwater, tends to collect forward towards the cabin bulkhead instead of at the rear bilge well under the engines. So how do you remove this water?

Some boats in the past were equipped with a bilge pump well and pump off to the starboard side just inside and forward under the galley. I'm not sure if the new boats also have this feature. There is an opening to allow the water into this well/compartment, and a Rule Platinum 1100 gph automatic pump is given the task of continuously checking the compartment for water, then pumping it overboard. This requires that you leave the pump on continuously when you're not present during the rainy season. This, in turn, seems to require battery charging if the absent period extends over long periods of weeks or months. Manufacturer's specs say the pump can tend it's duties for several weeks without charging as long as monumental pump-outs are not necessary. A solar charging set up could extend this service period indefinitely, at least theoretically.

Personally, I'd want to go look at the boat after any really big storm, period. Just insecure, I guess, but who wants to leave a new $60,000+ toy out to fend for itself for long periods? Would you buy a new Corvette and leave it on it's own in a storage yard for weeks on end?

A much better solution would be to cover the cockpit and keep the rain water out as much as possible. A mooring cover would probably be the least expensive solution. Just be sure it fits tight enough to shed most all of the water, which naturally wants to pool in the depressed center if the cover is not tight enough. Some types of boats require supporting ribs to keep the center up. Perhaps a couple of coolers stacked in the middle of the cockpit or something similar would substitute here.

Perhaps Steve at Gunther's could point you toward a local canvas shop for a cover, but you could also very possibly have one made cheaper by someone in the Pacific NorthWest that already has patterns and usually can afford to do the work for less than Bay Area prices. You can probably mount the snap fittings on the hull yourself if given a pattern and/or advice on how to do so by the maker. You could also go up to a C-Brat Get-Together and have the cover installed while you're there!

If you're more interested in going further and investing in a full Bimini top with side curtains and the like, this would be another alternative, though both more expensive and probably necessitate full professional installation.

I'm sure others will offer further advice on these topics and that this limited foray into these two problems is not all inclusive. Be sure to look up as many related topics in the Library and with the Search Engines as well as the same on the C-Dog site. Every issue like this branches out into a myriad of related ones just like a giant spider web.

Hope we've got you started on your way!!! Joe.

gary allen · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:32 pm Post subject:

Joe,

Wow! Thanks for your very detailed response. Lots of good suggestions. I guess I may have to invest in some kind of a cockpit cover eventually. I do have the automatic bilge pump, but I don't like the idea of leaving it on for extended periods even though, as you say, it may not be pumping too much.

Thanks again,

Gary

jflug · Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:45 pm Post subject:

Gary - I flush my engines at the slip every trip. With the new Yamaha main motor it's pretty easy with the hose fitting - I just flush it with the motor tilted up; it doesn't need to be run. But I also used to do it with my old Johnson 70 outboard. I'd just put the earmuffs on with the hose running and tilt the motor back down into the water. The fresh water pressure is high enough to keep the salt water out, and after running the motor for awhile I'd tilt it up with the hose still running. As long as the earmuff fitting is maintaining higher fresh water pressure, it will keep the salt water out -

Jim F

gary allen · Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:17 am Post subject:

Jim,

Thanks for your response. What do you think about keeping rainwater from accumulating in the cockpit?

By the way, would you be interested in going for a cruise/fishing in each other's boats? I'm sure I could learn a lot from you.

Gary

jflug · Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:24 pm Post subject:

Hi Gary - I haven't dealt with the rainwater much because I'm only in the slip from late spring through later summer. Since I'm only 1/2 mile from the slip I just go down and bail it anyway.

A cruise some time would be fun if we could make it work. I've got the boat hauled out now, but I'll probably be out again when crab season starts up. Give me call if your out my way.

Jim

Sneaks · Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:40 pm Post subject:

I'm on the list for a slip at a military marina and when/if I ever filter to the top, THIS is the first place I'll be checking out in depth.

dan365 · Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:42 pm Post subject:

Hi, Two issues; I have been told that the hose attachment flush system only flush a portion of the engine (I have hondas) and that the only way to completely flush is with the rabbit ears.

Also, I get the impression that you wouldn't run your engine in the up position.

I currently trailer but am on the wait list for a saltwater slip. I flush after each use with rabbit ears and with the motor in the trimmed up position - perhaps 45 degrees. My plan was to also flush in this configuration in the slip but the hose attachment would be so much easier. I'm having trouble picturing myself hanging off the stern trying to attach rabbit ears while the boat is in the water.

Also, it would seem awfully difficult to attach one of those buckets while in the water...

Thoughts?

Dan

jflug · Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:33 pm Post subject:

Dan - As a matter of fact, it is a little tough hanging out there attaching the muffs, but I guess I could have backed it into the slip and made it a whole lot easier. I never did try running it in the up position; maybe it wouldn't have been a problem.

I've never heard that the hose attachment doesn't do a complete flush on my Yamaha; and I don't know why it wouldn't. All I know is that I see water bubbling out of every possible cooling system port when I do it, so it seems to be thorough.

Jim F.

New Hampshire Guy · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:17 pm Post subject: Engine flushing

At LAST! After weeks of learning, a place where I can contribute.

To keep the peace, please note that everyone has been right-on with the analysis of the situation, but a big picture might be a place where I can help.
We deal in Suzuki outboards, but most of this stuff is generally true to all.
The "fresh water flush port" is there for saltwater engines. Now all Suzukis are made for saltwater (I know some brands have a 'Saltwater' or 'Ocean' versions) so they (and probably your engine) have plenty of zincs to handle this situation. What you are trying to do is address the scale and anodizing that is going to happen in that environment. Since the port is used with the engine off (and there is usually a minimum pressure they want for that freshwater, to displace the salt) its going to bypass the water pump. Also, read your instruction manual, you're supposed to do this for up to 25 minutes. With twins now you're looking at an hour of washdown.
Now to be reasonable, if you're using your engine regularly you could get away with less. You're trying to displace saltwater and flush any scale and junk. If you stay on top of it, flush every time, weekly, you can get away with less, maybe 5-10 minutes.
That being said, you are still missing the waterpump which will spend the season(s) with the saltwater. If you let it sit for any length of time between runnings, the scale etc is worse... in the part you need most.
Now to the earmuffs, which may be more difficult to attach. With those you get freshwater through everything, and somewhat warm water at that, including the waterpump. 5 minutes and you're done.
Marinas always use the earmuffs, and that's why.
Tipping up the engines -great to limit contact, but...
PLEASE NOTE THIS IF YOU TIP UP YOUR OUTBOARDS...
If your boat lives anywhere where the temps can get to freezing, you CAN GET FREEZE DAMAGE IN THE PROPELLER HUB. There is a space there that can/does trap water when you tip the engines. Splash some non-toxic antifreeze in that hub if you get cold weather!!! Just an ounce or so will do it. Also, since living in a slip can get dirty, another periodic check for you folks tipping up in the winter. The leading edge of the lower unit, opposite the prop, we'll call the bullet for its shape. There is a little drain hole in the forward lower nose of the bullet that empties everything when you tip the engine up. You probably notice water from this hole dribbling down the skeg when the engines first come out of the water. It would be a bad deal if a barnacle or something blocked that drain, because that prevents freeze damage inside the lower unit. An occasional check with a pick or piece of wire might be in order if you live in a freeze zone.
Hope this was of some help.
Go C-Dory!

dan365 · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:08 pm Post subject:

Great dialog! So, the waterpump does not get flushed unless the engine is running and the engine cannot be run using the hose attachment. That makes sense. Now, the hard part is getting the rabbit ears on while hanging over the transom.

Do you feel that running the engines in the tipped up position is an issue for any reason? As long as I've got water flowing, it would not seem to me to be an issue. Unless of course this creates an oil flow issue...?

Thanks,

Dan

Flat Iron · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:44 pm Post subject:

Hmmmm....ya got me courious also. I was told that on my twin Yamahas it flushed the whole system. I know water comes out of the lower unit ports/screens/prop, when I hook up the flushing system, not just the top discharge tube.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity I just went out and hooked it up, yep it flushes both ways when the engine is off, not running. When the engines are started, that water coming out of the lower unit ports is warm coming from a cold water tap. So....maybe it differs from what one manufacture claims to another.

Also when I have my Yamahas in for service and they check for carb synch., they also hook up the fresh water flush system, start the engines and do their tweaking/adjusting if needed at idle. I can't imagine a dealer doing that if no water was going through the water pump.

Dan and Jan on Flat Iron

Flat Iron · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 8:13 pm Post subject:

I also recall about a year ago I plugged up a water intake on my starboard engine with some of that green slimy moss, it set the engine alarm off and I had to shut it down I was leaving the dock in Sausolito Harbor in San Francisco Bay when it happened. The weather going across to Berkely was horrendous with high winds and huge waves and I had to cross over on just one of my twin 40hp Yamahas. When I reached Berkely and pulled the boat out I hooked up the garden hose at the top of the boat ramp to the plugged starboard engine and after a 10min. non-start flush (engine off) it cleaned itself out, lower intake screens and all.

Dan and Jan on Flat Iron

dan365 · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:53 pm Post subject:

This is getting interesting; I have hondas and the owner's manual describes the flushing process by connecting a hose to a part that they do not supply and flushing with a hose. No mention of the rabbit ears or ear muffs at all. Now, at the factory, I was told to use the rabbit ears because the other method did not flush everything - perhaps they said water pump but that is the logical conclusion.

Why wouldn't Honda suggest the rabbit ears if the other method did a less than complete job?

But, it sure make sense that the water pump is not running while the engine is off, therefore, no flushing...

Flat Iron · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:03 pm Post subject:

I don't know if the water pump turns or not if the engine isn't running hooked up to a flushing system. It might some if the engine is in neutral, maybe not though. Maybe there's some sort of bypass on some engines, or there's enough clearence in the water pump for inflow and outflow of water to happen without turning the impeller. Someone knows I'm sure!

In my case it was the intake screens that got plugged and it was to dangerous to hang over the transom in the conditions I was in to try and clean them. I can't say for sure that the slime made it all the way up to the water pump or not. That garden hose hooked up to the Yamaha flush system seems to put out a real good blast of water on discharge tube though and comes out of all lower unit ports/screens, engine running or not.

Dan and Jan on Flat Iron