Shower Drain Problem - 2007 Venture 26

jep27

I am trying to sort out the proper fix for our shower - 2007 Cape Cruiser 26.

I have read a number of posts in the forum -- and decided I really need to inspect the sump pump and either replace or bypass.

Problem is > how do I gain access to it?

In the port cabinet, I have a Jabsco PumpGard Model 46200-000 and ParMax3 Model 31610-0092. (picture added to our album)

From my readings on the forums (thanks, all).. it sounds like there is another sump pump.. perhaps located under the shower floor?? and that triggers the ParMax3 into action when a float is high enough? It worked (a bit) in the fall.. but nothing now and we've had 2" of water on the shower floor.

Do I need to access by pulling the toilet? Or..??

Thoughts / Direction?

Thanks-- Jeff

srbaum · Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:30 pm Post subject:

Jeff,
I have the same boat and it is the same year as yours. My set up is the same as in your photo, with a filter and then the pump, in the port side locker.
There is nothing else in the system in my boat. It appears that the drain cover in the deck of the head was installed with 3M5200, after a proper drain catch was installed below the fiberglass liner.
Assuming that you have a working pump and that the strainer before the pump is clean, you can always remove the strainer from the hose and use something like mechanical fingers, reaching toward the shower drain, to clean out any object, like hair.
I PM'ed you and you are welcome to call me, as I had this issue when I purchased the boat 3 years ago.

journey on · Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:34 pm Post subject:

I had the problem of the shower drain not working; to be exact it would not pump overboard and filled the cockpit floor with soapy water. Judy was really mad, but we cleaned it up and left it alone till we got home. All I can say is it worked at home.

So what happened? Well the shower drains into a
Johnson Multiple Port Shower Sump System, which has a sump pump inside. It didn't pump when the float switch lifted; ran but didn't pump. So I replace the original ant-backdrain with a Forespar Vented Loop . Worked fine; did the same for both of the other sump pumps. Actually, the pump mfg. says that a vented loop is mandatory; don't know why everything worked without them before and then stopped. Fixed the problem though.

Now that's for a C-Dory 25 and you'd have to check your Venture.

thataway · Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:14 pm Post subject:

I would put a second filter before the fine screened filter it that is plugging up.

However first you need to find out if the Par Pump is working. I often put a on off switch as well as the float swiich on the sump pump.

It is very possible that the pump is running but the impeller or valves are bad.

forrest · Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:43 pm Post subject:

If your boat is like mine, and it probably is, you have a single pole switch that runs the pump. No float switch. If the motor doesn't run you either have a blown fuse, bad switch, open wiring or a bad motor. If the motor runs and doesn't pump water there is a screen in front of the pump, that if clogged up, the pump won't prime. If the screen is clean and you still can't get the pump to pump, you either have a clogged impeller or a hole/loose clamp/loose screen cover that allows air into the suction line. Hope this helps,
Forrest

srbaum · Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:47 pm Post subject:

My 26 shower drain is rigged exactly as Forest’s boat. His recommendations are absolutely correct…

colbysmith · Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:00 am Post subject:

I'm a bit confused. This pump in the above photo looks like a potable water pump and strainer to me. I would assume that the 26, like the 25, uses a standard bilge pump to empty the shower water drain overboard. Am I missing something? On my 25, there is a shower sump box underneath the floor in my port closet, accessible by lifting an access panel. Inside that sump box is a large strainer, a bilge pump and a float switch. In my case, I was getting some leakage out of the sump box as there was no sealant around the lid, or where the pump and float wires went into the box. I corrected that by putting sealant in the wiring hole and around the lid.

If I am correct that the pump and a few of the comments above, are in regards to the potable water system, and not the drain, then I think your issue regards the sump drain and pump, and not the pump in the photo. That being the case, if water is backing up in your shower, then it sounds like you either have blockage in the drain line, or the shower sumps bilge pump is not working due to either it's own problem, or the float switch. Could just be a blown fuse for that pump as well.

More direct to your question:

srbaum · Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:48 pm Post subject:

Colby,
The 26 set up does not have a sump with a bilge pump like the 25. The 25 has a step in the doorway entrance, that has all of that stuff in it. The 26 does not have that step/storage area. The 26 has a shower drain, more like at your home, that has a hose that goes to the strainer and then to the pump and then overboard, through a thru hull fitting on the port side. There is a simple switch in the head, located in the plastic built in compartment, that contains the shower valves and shower nozzle.

jep27 · Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:30 pm Post subject:

Thanks All -- great input and it sounds like maybe a couple different systems being referenced.

To confirm our set-up, here's some more information

* On/Off Switch: We have one of these (picture added to album). Located in the shower controls.

* Looped End Exit through Hull: I believe this is how ours is - (picture added to album)

* Do we have a sump pump or not?: Still not clear to me. It was suggested that there is a Johnson SumpPump upstream from the filter and pump shown.. if so, I assume it must be under the shower floor and assume that is where there is an issue with the float not working/triggering water evacuation.

-- If we don't have one, does that imply that the float is located in the lower portion of the ParMax3 unit? If so, that's a fair bit higher on the slope of the floor on our port cabinet and may explain why water level/pressure is not triggering?

Q > How would I disable the float.. so that this pump would just work on/off against the switch in our shower controls?

* I don't think I commented before.. but our shower floor is also leaking into the space beneath the cabin/salon floor when left there. I can sponge u through a deck plate.. but still, not good. Maybe I need to re-set/re-seal the drain fitting with 5200 .. to be sure it's not leaking there.. and therefore allow pressure not to build to hit the float?

* How important is it to remove the looped exit and replace with the vented type?

Thanks for any further thoughts!

Best- Jeff

colbysmith · Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:52 pm Post subject:

thataway · Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:02 pm Post subject:

With what you describe I would be most surprised if you have a sump or sump pump or float valve. I have had several boats rigged the way you are. You just turn on the pump when you shower. It sucks the water out thru the drain.

You need to determine if power to the pump. Does pump run? Then check the wire mesh filter, (which should be checked upon each voyage, and every few weeks when in use.

The leak to the bilge is probably due to a leak around the shower drain. That may be difficult to access. It is even possible that another inspection plate may have to be added to access this area. Those who have the same boat/set up will know if there is access. Most likely the caulking around the drain has failed, or was not adequate to begin with. If so the drain fitting should be removed, the fiberglass cleaned, as well as the SS fitting, and then re-installed with good caulking. This will require removing the hose from the fitting and backing off the nut which holds the drain tight under the floor.

jep27 · Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:03 am Post subject:

Update >

Fuse blown -- and confirmed that the pump is shorting out.

While I know some of you more experienced guys re-build, I think I'll just get a replacement.

* Any recommendations on replacement shower pump?

Also-- I had a very tough time getting the tubing off this pump.. and wondering if there is any sort of trick?

Are these drain tubes sealed with heat or something? -- also wondering if that sort of joining is recommended as I replace?

thanks-- Jeff

srbaum · Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:17 am Post subject:

Jeff,
Glad that you sorted it out. I use a heat gun or hair dryer, when removing old hose. Of course, you can’t do that for fuel systems, as the heat gun, or hair dryer, as are not explosion proof.

srbaum · Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:02 am Post subject:

Jeff,
Glad that you sorted it out. I use a heat gun or hair dryer, when removing old hose. Of course, you can’t do that for fuel systems, as the heat gun, or hair dryer, as are not explosion proof.

thataway · Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:04 pm Post subject:

As srbaum, I often use a heat gun--but just as frequently, especially when putting tubing on, I use hot water.

The factory most likely put some sort of sealant--Bostec was often preferred for some reason. If I have a problem, I use Permatex Form-a gasket #2, (soft non hardening). It will give adherence with hoses which have small leaks at the joint, yet be easy to remove.

I recently had a shower sump which had cracks in the case. I thought I got an exact replacement, but it was slightly different, which required some hose modification.

If possible remove the old sump, and get the numbers off of it--so you have an exact replacement. There probably will be overflow from the water heater hose attached to the shower sump also.

In my sump, I have the float level switch wired so it works, but also a direct positive to the pump bypassing the float switch which I can use if either the float switch fails, or I want to get as much water out of the sump as possible.

Be sure and clean the strainer. I don't know what type of pump you have (centrifugal, or displacement), but it is rare for them to seize. At times if the vanes become stuck, you can free that up, and the pump motor is still good.