When the boat guy ain't doin' boats --- way off topic

Les Lampman · Last edited by Les Lampman on Tue Dec 02, 2003 10:12 am; edited 1 time in total

I've posted drawings of some of the possible layouts and floor plans for our bus conversion in the Boat Les on Whidbey album.

Ok, as a bit of explanation...

Shelley and I bought a school bus on October 18th (my 50th birthday!) to convert into a long-term rolling home. For those interested the specs are:

1979 International "S" series chassis with a 65-passenger Blue Bird bus body; it has a conventional nose with a flip hood. Power is an International DT466 turbo diesel and that's mated to an Allison MT-643 4-speed automatic transmission. The DT466 puts out about 180-hp right now and can be dialed up to 230-hp. My sister's husband and I drove the bus home from Denver and it's got plenty of power to pull the hills; we'll see how it does once converted.

Shelley and I have removed all the seats and I'm in the process of removing the under seat heaters and coolant lines. Once that's done (and we decide on a layout) I'll then put down the sub-floor and start the interior work. In the meantime goodies have been showing up at my doorstep (range, toilet, water heater, etc) so that I'll have everything on-hand.

I'd always intended to convert an "Greyhound" style over-the-road bus but when we got to the 'serious' stage of our plans I realized that it wouldn't suit our needs very well with all the places we wanted to go and the types of things we wanted to do. I kept coming back to the simplicity of the school bus and it's high ground clearance and robust construction. They're meant to be easily maintained and I early on decided I didn't want a vehicle with the engine underneath (front or rear). From the days I spent 18-wheeling I knew with a flip hood that everything in the engine compartment is easy to access, easy to see and doesn't require crawling under the vehicle. Other pluses for the school bus were tighter turning radius (and better maneuverability) and lower height for back road situations and low clearances. Minuses are a harsher ride than a luxury coach (I can work on that) and lack of 'status' (the last didn't count much for us).

It's a fun process since the bus is being set up a lot like an offshore cruising sailboat would be with respect to the electrical system and such; we'll be as independent as possible and only have to find diesel, water and propane every now and again (oh yeah, and dump facilities).

TyBoo · Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:33 pm Post subject:

Very nice, Les. I already done looked at those drawings, and I like it! I even made a discovery and posted a comment over here.

I like the sketches, too. What CAD software do you use?

TyBoo · Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:35 pm Post subject:

Hey! You forgot to put the durn steering wheel back in!

Les Lampman · Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:38 pm Post subject:

Hi Mike,

The program is called Delta Cad...from Seattle by golly. I couldn't justify (or afford) those multi-hundred dollar CAD programs; even the 'cheap' SmartDraw was close to $200 or so. Delta Cad is $39.95...that I can handle. It doesn't do any 3D stuff, which is fine with me since I don't know how to do it anyway.

I uploaded some really stripped down jpeg's in to the album; the screen, the printouts and the full-size jpeg's look really good.

I saw your comments... Wink

chinook · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:30 am Post subject:

Les - I would think about swapping the bunks & w/c to the back end and get the water tanks forward, over the wheel wells at least. To much weight aft with the current arrangement. Bus chassis have long rear overhang, and the weight of the water way in the back will create dangerous sway tendencies, especially if you are going to tow also. We had a converted bus way back in the 60's (RV license no. 1 in Minnesota) & we had to figure this out ourselves.

Regards,

Riverrat on Chinook.

Les Lampman · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 9:47 am Post subject:

Hi Riverrat,

Good observations. This is something I've been considering from the beginning and I've looked at dozens (it seems like hundreds!) of configurations. Originally there was a queen bed across the back and the drawing table was where the bunks are now. Due to the work we want to do on the road (Shelley is an artist and I make picture frames) we decided to dedicate the aft end to a separate shop space with a tightly sealed bulkhead and door to keep fumes and such out of our living space; we wanted the rear emergency door to open up the space and provide ventilation and as a way to do come and go from the work shop without going through the living areas.

I've done a weight and balance on the water and it really doesn't seem to affect much where I put it anywhere aft of the wheels. There are two 50 gallon tanks and their forward face is about 30" behind the rear axle. Moving 840 pounds on the short side of a 35' long bus doesn't result in large changes; the space aft of the rear axle originally held eight seats...24 kids or 16 adults. That comes to somewhere in the range of 2400 to 2800 pounds (using 100 pounds/kid or 175 pounds/adult); in comparison the weight of the water is not substantial.

Part of the problem is the layout under the bus; there's a large diagonal brace under the aft most portion of the body on both sides (about 48" front-to-rear) and I can't put the toilet any further aft then it is and still be able to get a waste tank under it. I can put the water tanks right over the wheel wells which are 46" long (the tanks are 38"); this wouldn't work out badly on the left side of the bus but it would not allow me to use bunk beds on the right side since the lower bunk would be much higher (another 18") and there wouldn't be enough space above it for the top bunk. I can't do a pull out double there since it would run into the head compartment.

I really appreciate the questions, thoughts and suggestions...it makes me re-think everything and makes sure I'm heading in the right direction and if an idea springs up or a problem gets solved it's sure a good thing.

I've posted two new floor plan views of the bus in my Boat Les on Whidbey album.

Les Lampman · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:35 pm Post subject:

Ok, Riverrat...you just cost me a few dozen hours on the old CAD program and doubtless more grey hair!

You did get me to thinking a lot more about the water and I just couldn't abide those darn bunk beds...so back to the drawing board...errr...screen.

The result of all that head scratching is here for the floorplan and here for the perspective view. You can go to the album and click on the image if you want the really big version.

Mighty Bite · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:45 am Post subject:

Hi, Oh Boatles One,

I like the last version better. Nicely laid out and I too like the idea of the water moved further forward. Everything is a compromise of sorts as it's hard (probably impossible) to come up with every desireable feature a person would want, spaced and placed to the optimum convenience. That being said, I'm sure that this will end up being as close to ideal as it can be in the final proof. I am already looking forward to the tour!

Hmmmm, I can see it now ........zzzzz/dream/zzzzzzz,........

- Boatles Marine and Motorhome Emporium -

chinook · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:42 am Post subject:

Les

Looks like you have it nailed now!! Conventient layout, excellent weight distribution, carrying the weight within the wheelbase, & should be balanced port to starboard too!! Got to see some pix when done!!

Happy Holidays,

Lou a.k.a. Riverrat

Les Lampman · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:06 am Post subject:

Hi Lou,

I hope you're patient!!! Teeth

Now that we have the floorplan done I'll be able to get started; mostly I've been trying to get that finished so I know where all the wiring, plumbing, tanks, electrcial panels and such have to go.

I've posted the other parts of the perspective drawings here for the left side and here for the whole enchilada.

Les Lampman · Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 12:04 pm Post subject:

Ok, one last "tweak"; something just wasn't "right" and I couldn't quite nail it down. A few minutes moving things around and Voila...it finally all came together. And it's shown here ; I left the old floor plan in the album for comparison. I didn't re-tweak the perspective drawings...yet!

The small tables in front of the couch are removable and at least the forward one usually won't be in place. The piano bench will tuck further under the piano; I just left it out to show it better in the drawing. And finally the piece-de-resistance...I kept trying to figure out how to get a diesel fired heat source (I've got 70 gallons of that available in the bus and only 19-gallons of propane) and I liked the Dickinson heaters with their glass front doors (for ambiance), looks and efficiency. I was finally able to work in the space to put in a Dickinson Antarctic floor-standing model just ahead of the piano. With the piano bench tucked away it will truly be a "living" room. And we'll have space for extra seating for guests; the couch will also fold down into a double bed.

We're not real big on TV but there will be a flat screen something-or-other on the big flat space in the center of the bus over the drivers area for what TV we do watch and for DVD movies. I've got about a foot or better of empty space in that area (depth-wise behind the panel) so I'll also be able to get the stereo (which we do love) and the CD changer built in to the left of center (I want to be able to reach the stereo from the driver's seat).

Now it's time to grab the tools and head for the bus... Teeth

DaveS · Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 4:07 pm Post subject:

That floor plan looks great! That would be quite a boaterhome too, if it were mounted on a C-Dory hull. If anyone could do it, it would be you.
Any plans that way? Wink

Coastie Dory · Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 11:52 am Post subject:

Hi Les, what a great idea. When I was a teenager I wanted to do a school bus conversion and the idea kind of faded with age. I've been reminded first by my son who keeps looking at school buses on e-bay, and now you with your recent aquisition. There used to be a neat book at the public library, I must have checked it out a dozen times. I don't remember the author, but the title is "Rolling Homes, Hand Made Houses on Wheels". I suggest trying to find it if you have not already read it. As I recall there were lots of neat pictures. Oh yeah, don't forget the drop hitch for your favorite C-Dory!

Best Wishes, Randy.

Les Lampman · Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:40 pm Post subject:

Hey Randy,

Hang on with both hands! If you can find a copy of Rolling Homes they fetch upwards of $100 bucks and most folks won't let them go for that!

There's a new book out now called Some Turtles Have Nice Shells by Roger Beck. A lot of the photos on the new book were also in the Rolling Homes book.

I'm afraid our ambitions are a little more on the conservative side Wink

, I'm going to leave the body alone and paint it a nice emerald green with black trim.

It won't surprise me much if the interior ends up looking an awfully lot like a C-Dory! I've even considered using the Decraguard plywood for the partitions and cabinets! Teeth

Dave...you realize that a C-Dory with the same accommodation would be about the same length...35-feet! Shocked

That's hard to tow even with a Dodge diesel! Wink

DaveS · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 12:39 am Post subject: