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Drippy Cave Syndrome
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Schuster



Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 5
City/Region: Port Orchard
State or Province: WA
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:18 am    Post subject: Drippy Cave Syndrome Reply with quote

Hi all,
I am not a C-Dory owner yet but am trying to find a 25' so if you know someone who is getting ready to part with theirs Im all ears.
Now one comment I read is that C-dorys are known for drippy cabin syndrome. Is there a solution for this? Can the inside of the cabin be painted with a moisture block or felt be applied to the bulkheads or overhead?
Thanks
Dave Schuler
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robhwa



Joined: 04 Dec 2013
Posts: 175
City/Region: Anderson Island
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: “ Problemadela
Photos: Problemadela
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: Drippy Cave Syndrome Reply with quote

Schuster wrote:
Hi all,
I am not a C-Dory owner yet but am trying to find a 25' so if you know someone who is getting ready to part with theirs Im all ears.
Now one comment I read is that C-dorys are known for drippy cabin syndrome. Is there a solution for this? Can the inside of the cabin be painted with a moisture block or felt be applied to the bulkheads or overhead?
Thanks
Dave Schuler


Key is understanding the difference between TOTAL and RELATIVE humidity. Total humidity is water dissolved into the air. Relative humidity is what you feel, and related to the ability of water to dissolve into or precipitate, out of the air, onto you, your windows, and your cabin interior.

The figure below shows temperature and the total amount of water that can be dissolved into air before it starts to precipitate out of the water (100% relative humidity). Water can also condense onto colder surfaces in the cabin, and then drip from them, which is what you are trying to avoid. C-Dories are bad because their simple cabin construction and large, single-paned windows, allow the interior to cool...just touch a window or wall on a cold day.



Drippy C-Dory cabins (particularly in the PNW) are caused by water in cabin air having higher total humidity than the temperature of air can hold. Heating air in your cabin without exchanging cabin with outside air only reduces relative humidity, not total, and only temporarily. When that air cools, water can condense from it.

What you need is to either remove humidity (I use a 12 volt dehumidifier), or bring in some outside air, which will typically have a low total humidity, and thus, when heated, a much lower relative humidity. For instance, if you bring in outside air at 40 F, 100% relative humidity and heat it to 60 F, the relative humidity will be about 50%. This will mix with and dry humid cabin air.

Sealing up your cabin nearly air-tight, which is a C-Dory feature many small boats don't have, doesn't work, as we are constantly adding water to the air by breathing, perspiring, and sometimes cooking. LP heaters (i.e. "Buddy" heaters) that don't exhaust to the outside also add water as a combustion product.

The Wallas heater is better, as it takes in cabin air for combustion, and then exhausts it outside. Outside air comes in to replace it, and when heated, dries your cabin because it will likely have lower total humidity.

I keep my Wallas on almost all of the time I am in the cabin. This works. Colder, outside air in the PNW seems wet, as it is usually near 100% relative humidity, but when heated, even a little, will typically be much lower in relative humidity, and when this heated, outside air is mixed with cabin air, will likely dry your cabin.
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tsturm



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 1030
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Drippy Cave Syndrome Reply with quote

Schuster wrote:
Hi all,
I am not a C-Dory owner yet but am trying to find a 25' so if you know someone who is getting ready to part with theirs Im all ears.
Now one comment I read is that C-dorys are known for drippy cabin syndrome. Is there a solution for this? Can the inside of the cabin be painted with a moisture block or felt be applied to the bulkheads or overhead?
Thanks
Dave Schuler


Any Boat period. Thumbs Up
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 3278
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've tried fans, my webasto heater, bringing combustion air from inside the boat thereby drawing fresh air into the cabin from outside, solar fans, etc. The boats condensate. The colder it is outside, the more it condensates on the inside. I gave up. I just keep one of those body shammies, the ones used for sports to stay cool, nearby, and mop the hull and ceiling up when I need to. (Usually in the morning after getting up.) Colby
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Salmon Fisher



Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 654
City/Region: Arlington
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2015
C-Dory Model: R-27 Tug
Vessel Name: Kim Christine
Photos: Kim Christine
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We found that leaving the hatch in the v berth cracked open and the side windows in the cabin, too, helped keep condensation down when sleeping at night.

If we leave the boat totally closed up you cannot help but get condensation.

During the daytime, wallas heater or furnace on and a window cracked will result in no condensation, in our experience.

There have been a few owners who have either glued on a liner, available through Sailrite. Here's a link to their youtube channel that shows how. I know a couple of C-Brats have done this and it's worked out well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMQlTZw2Gu0

Another route is to spray on a liner, kind of thickened sound deadening paint.
If you look it up, you'll find it on C-Brats.

Good luck!

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2000 22 Cruiser 2009-2014 (Sold)
2006 25 Cruiser 2014-2019 (Sold)
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Salmon Fisher



Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 654
City/Region: Arlington
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2015
C-Dory Model: R-27 Tug
Vessel Name: Kim Christine
Photos: Kim Christine
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We found that leaving the hatch in the v berth cracked open and the side windows in the cabin, too, helped keep condensation down when sleeping at night.

If we leave the boat totally closed up you cannot help but get condensation.

During the daytime, wallas heater or furnace on and a window cracked will result in no condensation, in our experience.

There have been a few owners who have either glued on a liner, available through Sailrite. Here's a link to their youtube channel that shows how. I know a couple of C-Brats have done this and it's worked out well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMQlTZw2Gu0

Another route is to spray on a liner, kind of thickened sound deadening paint.
If you look it up, you'll find it on C-Brats.

Good luck!
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Robert H. Wilkinson



Joined: 26 Jan 2011
Posts: 1050
City/Region: Port Ryerse
State or Province: ON
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Romakeme IV
Photos: Robert H. (Name TBD)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salmon Fisher wrote:
I know a couple of C-Brats have done this and it's worked out well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMQlTZw2Gu0


Our non Cdory boat has something like this in the cuddy. I think it is sometimes referred to as "monkey fur". We have never had problems with condensation in V birth. Not a pilothouse though - camper top which we purposely do not close up tight. May also be the climate of our area.

Rob

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bridma



Joined: 13 Sep 2011
Posts: 1098
City/Region: Comox
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Nomad
Photos: Nomad
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Install port and starboard portholes in the v-berth. Crack them open when needed. Goes a long way to keeping condensation down.

Martin.
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robhwa



Joined: 04 Dec 2013
Posts: 175
City/Region: Anderson Island
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: “ Problemadela
Photos: Problemadela
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:18 pm    Post subject: dripping cabin Reply with quote

Is anyone else using a dehumidifier while underway? Each person in the cabin is continually adding water through perspiration. Any cooking or boiling (I like coffee) also adds water. I find my DC dehumidifier removes about a pint of water a day, sometimes less, sometimes a lot more. A dehumidifier is probably not necessary, particularly if you are heating the cabin and exchanging air, but I have no problems with a wet cabin, even when I sleep at night, when I keep the dehumidifier going.
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 2360
City/Region: Leesburg
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think that with the "monkey fur" but not additional insulation, all you'd end up with is wet monkey fur. The stuff in the video is probably acrylic fabric and would dry fairly quickly, but still.

In my boat in my area, we do get condensation on the interior if it is cold out. You can see it and feel it with a finger, but so far we have not had any problem with dripping.
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srbaum



Joined: 30 Aug 2010
Posts: 635
City/Region: Portsmouth
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,
My boat doesn’t have this issue, because the boat’s previous owner installed tile, like this on the overhead.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Armstrong-Ceilings-Common-48-in-x-24-in-Actual-47-719-in-x-23-719-in-Armatuff-8-Pack-White-Textured-15-16-in-Drop-Acoustic-Panel-Ceiling-Tiles/3068659
You can view it here
: http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album178&id=IMG_2760&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php and here: http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album178&id=IMG_2761&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

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South of Heaven



Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 1435
City/Region: Sharon
State or Province: MA
Photos: Blue Water
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My boats did that too. Honestly, not a big deal. I like the idea of a shamee. Plus it'll keep the walls clean.
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2007 C Dory 25' Cruiser (200 hp Suzuki, sold 7/17)

2003 C Dory 19' Angler (80 hp Yamaha, sold 7/16)

1995 C Dory 16' Angler (40 hp Yamaha, sold 2/16)
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smckean (Tosca)



Joined: 18 Jan 2014
Posts: 692
City/Region: Guemes Island (Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Tosca
Photos: Tosca
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is anyone else using a dehumidifier while underway?

No, but I do use a contractor grade dehumidifier on my boat. I only do it when the boat is on the trailer and under its roof. The point is that each time I do that I extract 3 to 5 gallons of water out of the boat (using a heater at the same time to keep boat interior 70-75°).

So there is moisture in the cabin even if you don't see it. I can really tell the difference too. Although I don't have any water droplets, or even noticeable moisture, the boat still feels remarkably "dry" after a dehumidifier session.....sort of like travelling to Arizona from Seattle. As soon as you step out the plane door, you notice the difference.

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CC Rider



Joined: 19 Nov 2013
Posts: 100
City/Region: Tsawwassen
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: CC Rider
Photos: CC Rider
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is anyone else using a dehumidifier while underway?


I'm curious about this, what model do you use? (Assuming it is a 12V unit) Current draw? Anyone else using one while at anchor or underway?

Thanks,
Chris

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robhwa



Joined: 04 Dec 2013
Posts: 175
City/Region: Anderson Island
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: “ Problemadela
Photos: Problemadela
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:40 pm    Post subject: 12 volt dehumidifier Reply with quote

CC Rider wrote:
Quote:
Is anyone else using a dehumidifier while underway?


I'm curious about this, what model do you use? (Assuming it is a 12V unit) Current draw? Anyone else using one while at anchor or underway?

Thanks,
Chris


This one...

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Pure-Enrichment-PureDry-Mini-Dehumidifier-0-53-Pint-1-Speed-Dehumidifier/1001389040

It is about 6 in wide, 4 in deep, and 12 in high. I bought it originally to protect some installations of monitoring equipment...run with solar and battery power inside of a sealed box. It worked well, but would only hold about a pint of water, and I eventually drilled a hole in the reservoir and fitted a hose through the box to drain continually.

Came with with a 120 AC to 9 VDC converter. That can work if you have an inverter, but I use a 12 to 9 VDC converter instead. Draws 22 watts, pretty much continuously.

One thing I've found is that the unit "ices" up sometimes with high humidity and low temperature. Instructions say it won't work below 65 F, but it does, it just can ice up, and when it does, it quits removing water. In that case, you'll need to cycle on and off to let the ice melt, about an hour on and an hour off does the trick at C-Dory cabin temperatures (for me about 60F). Once the humidity is lower and temperature higher, generally no problem.

It also heats the air a little, not much in a C-Dory, but some in a gun case or inside of an electronic's box. I was told that dehumidifiers are excellent heaters, with usually a 2:1 or higher efficiency advantage over resistance-only heaters. I remember from a few physics and chemistry classes and in my greenhouse courses that when you evaporate a liter of water, you will absorb 540 kcal (big Calories) from the environment, cooling things. Conversely, when you condense a liter of water from the environment (C-Dory cabin), you will put 540 kcal into the environment around your dehumidifier.
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