Re-Power

rcwass · Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject: Re-Power

I keep hearing about a raised mount for my kicker. I have a 70HP Johnson as a main and a 15HP Johnson as a kicker. Both are mounted directly to the transom with a gang link between them for steering. Is this raised mount do to the overall size of the new 4-stroke or what? My 15HP developes a 7MPH speed on a calm day so it's low enough in the generate that speed. My kicker is out of the water when raised. So what gives? My kicker has a standard shaft.

Chris Bulovsky · Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:50 pm Post subject:

I'm no expert on this but the early 80's C-Dorys have a different transom. Less space to mount motors so a bracket was essential for a kicker. Later models have more space. Sometimes the steering system will not clear the kicker. One way to solve this is to mount the kicker on a bracket so stuff clears. This may only be one explanation of many.

Chris

Byrdman · Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject:

I think you are on target Chris. No way could 2 motors fit in the engine area of my 84 year model 18' Angler. The raised kicker mount is the only option with this particular transom.

Adeline · Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject:

rcwass · Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:53 pm Post subject: Re-Power

Another question has surfaced. My 1990 70HP Johnson weighs 250 pounds according to the service manual. To re-power with the new 4 strokes the weight would be 150 to 200 pounds more on the transom. My transom is rated for 90HP Max but nothing is mentioned about weight. I operate in high current waters. My C-Dory currently handles poorly in this current. I've varied the trim and added a Dolphin with no help. I'm concerned about this additional weight and how the handling will be with that additional weight. Does anyone with this vintage C-Dory have any suggestions? Thanks.
Dick

Norm S · Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:15 pm Post subject:

I think that where you are confused is between the pre & post 87 hulls. The earlier boats have a narrow motor well that will only take a single. so all of us with the classics have to use a bracket for a kicker. Wish I didn't trust me. On the weight issue, My info says ETEC 75 or 90 = 320#, 75 or 90 Yamaha = 369#, twin honda 40s or 50s 424# which a bunch of people seem to be running without issue. At least two boats are running 115 yamahas which are 466# according to what I have been able to find out. I'm no kind of expert by any stretch but I have read elsewhere on here that originally the designers did not want to have to use trim tabs. Most folks seem to be running them now. Probably more of a factor with the heavier engines / twin installations. I think if there is a test boat out there for how aft-heavy you can make a C-Dory and still make it work it is Greg with Red Fox. Between the 115 and all the fuel and other gear he has in the back he has definitely tested the envelope. He has proven that these are an extremely versitle and forgiveing design. Just my 2cents worth.
Norm

Chris Bulovsky · Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject:

You will not have any problem with the a 90 on your transom. From what I've read in the past allot of 22 guys like the extra weight in the rear when they went from a Johnson 70 to a heavy four stroke. I do not know what its like to have a light motor for comparison. Don't sweat the strength of the transom. I belive the boat would push under water before the transom would fail from weight or the force from forward thrust. I would bet that a C-Dory could run with 225 mercury with out any trouble. I would certainly put my money on the brute strength of the C-Dory any day. This ain't a candy ass boat.

Go for it
Chris

Redƒox · Guest

Yup... if your gonna have a heavy butt, than you should have at least a hydrofoil (which I steer-clear of anymore) and some big trim-tabs! this allows you control you would otherwise not have: To run "stern-deep" when situations demand it, and to run bow-down, when situations demand.
When your not stern-heavy in the first place, you are out that much more control!
I know "short post" is all I'm good fer these days Neutral

--- (I'm getting busy here) most everyone knows what I am going to say anyway "get a Yamaha" Love

"avoid a lite engine" Thumbs Down

and "run her stern-heavy with big trim-tabs"! Razz

(and don't forget the CC) Crook

hehehehe

rcwass · Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: Re-Power

One last question. I've been asked to join local C-Brat members in their travels all over New England and beyond. This means trailering the boat from here to that location. My trailer is a tandom axle E-Z Load trailer with bunkers. How does added stern weight effect trailering? Is it necessary to move the axles towards the back? My brakes are on the front wheels. I tow with a 1/2 ton pickup. My current tongue and axles are level.
When going into a purchase such as this, $15K, I'd like to know as much as possible beforehand.
Thanks to all.
Dick

Captains Cat · Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:30 pm Post subject:

Dick, there needs to be 500-750 pounds on the tongue. Very variable, depends on the towing vehicle, etc. I'd take it out locally and see how it handles.

Don't understand the comment "When going into a purchase such as this, $15K" What are you buying? Maybe I need to read the whole thread..

charlie

rcwass · Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:12 am Post subject: Re-Power

To Captains Choice,
15K is the cost quoted to me for either a new 90HP 4 Stroke or twin 40's plus controls and hydraulic steering upgrade. The new 4 strokes aren't cheap.
Thanks for you response.
Dick

Norm S · Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:22 am Post subject:

Wow! Still seems a little steep. Loking around online, I used Eds Marine Superstore in Va for a reference. (A lot of guys on the whaler website have dealt with them and seem happy) 90s are in the 7K range plus shipping and controls ( still less than a grand) twin 40s or 50s are under 11K again plus shipping and controls etc. Baystar units are in the 500 range. I know a local dealer is going to be a bit higher but even for twin 50s that still comes in way cheaper than 15K. And a whole bunch cheaper for a single 90. I believe in supporting your local dealer ( I just ordered my new motor from Les at EQ) but if he had been that far off I would have looked elsewhere.
Norm

lloyds · Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject:

Ed's will give terrific prices for the engines, but theei controls and rigging are way out of line. Most people go elsewhere for that stuff.

New Hampshire Guy · Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:58 pm Post subject:

Just to try and keep the math the same, there is a bit of difference between pricing two engines on the internet without controls, and the price quote for an actual Marina installing twins to a formerly single engined vessel. Yes, we're a dealer but the prices are consistent. We don't need sympathy to 'support the locals'. We earn it.
Some math that seems to have been lost in translation includes the cost of removing an old engine, stripping the old steering, rigging hydraulic steering, new throttles and cables, adding twin batteries- switch and wiring, new gauges, glass work to cover the old holes, etc. If you don't have to account for these "extras" and, oh yea, labor, well then Ed's sounds pretty good!
I mean, if all you expected from us was two engines-not hung on the boat, no props, throttles, cables and no batteries, gauges, steering, and just leave the old holes, well then we are WAY over priced! Go ED!
We invite everyone to shop around. I looked at Ed's and couldn't get a read on the year of the engines offered nor what they cost to install. If you want the warranty on any new engine I know of, you need to find a dealer to install them.
The 4 strokes cause sticker shock for everyone who has last purchased a two stroke. The pay off is in fuel efficiency, less pollution, peace and quiet and durability. Going from a single to twins requires hydraulics.
The C-Brats do an excellent job looking out for each other and this is a great example. Norm S has an honest opinion and he checked the internet to back him up and said so. His honesty and listing his references allows me to clear up the items not quoted and tell, as that radio guy says so well..."the REST of the story..."
Go Brats!
Go New England C-Dorys -NECD (Pronounced Nekkid!)
John

Norm S · Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject:

New Guy, All excellent points. Overall twins are quite a bit more expensive to install. However, rcwass said that that was also the price for a single 90. I was also making the assumption that this is an already functioning boat not a new hull where batteries etc need to be considered. I also start from my own premise that I don't pay shop rates for simple stuff that I can do myself. Removing the old controls, cables and motor are what I consider simple stuff. I've done it on this boat before and it went pretty quick. But then I've been a mechanic for most of my life so I often forget that a lot of people out there won't tackle what I will. Also sorry if I implied "sympathy" to support my local dealer. That was never my intent. What I apparently expressed poorly is that one cannot expect a local dealer to be there with service, expertise and help if one is not also willing to patronize that dealer thereby enabling them to stay in business. You are absolutely correct in that good dealers earn their good name and business success.
Norm