Down East Circle Cruise?

[tparrent]

I've been doing some armchair cruising. Haven't run aground yet, fuel usage has been quite small, I have a well equipped galley and even a fireplace. None of those conditions will hold when I get off of Navionics and onto my boat but that's where the adventure is!

I've been pondering where to go on an epic cruise. The Great Loop would seem a logical choice except that I'm not actually interested in large swaths of it. The ICW seems like a chore and the western part of the loop down the Mississippi and through KY and TN doesn't toot my horn. Florida has maybe four places that I find interesting.

I'm a northern guy even though I live in the south. Next summer will be spent in either Michigan or Vermont and there's some great cruising in both places but, unless I circumnavigate Lake Superior, the cruises are nice but not epic.

So I started looking Nova Scotia because, why not? I could go from Burlington VT to Montreal, out he St Laurence, around Nova Scotia, along the cast of Maine, down to New York City and back up to Burlington. This is a modified version of a route some have called the Down East Circle and it does indeed sound epic.

The question is: is the TomCat the right boat? It seems right to me for three reasons: 1) speed when I need it 2) shallow draft 3) it happens to be the boat I own.

The most challenging part of the cruise (on paper) would be coming around Nova Scotia and across the Bay of Fundy. With the right weather and the TomCat speed, it seems eminently doable.

All of you PNW cruisers could probably add some insight here. I know that most of the Inside Passage is not exposed to wide open ocean but I know there are also plenty of gnarly places with strong currents and gusty winds.

I think the most important resources would be time and the patience to use it. Waiting out fog and wind would be key to making the trip enjoyable and safe.

Before casting off lines for the cruise, I should probably take the TomCat out for a longer shakedown voyage than the two trips to the fuel dock I've made so far. Not to worry as I have taken next week off from work and plan to spend three or four days aboard going ... somewhere.

[gulfcoast john]

Tom,
Always fun to plan! Epic is whatever you make of it. How long would you have? Are you single handling it?

We’ll do the Best of the Loop three times while never completing the ‘boring’ sections.

I'm always the first in line to claim that the TC 255 is a great boat. However, even if your boat can do 47 miles per hour in calm water, when true seas reach 3 feet, by definition every 100th wave could be 6 ft and you do not want to hit a six foot high wall of water at 47 miles per hour even in a Tomcat. You have to throttle back maybe to displacement speeds...or better yet, stay in port. Small craft advisory conditions usually begin with winds at about 20 knots or 22 miles per hour which often generates 2+ to 3 foot Seas depending on fetch, depth and other factors. These conditions are fairly common most everywhere and are uncomfortable and no fun even in much larger boats. Last year in Key West a 43 ft, 2 million dollar Nordhavn docked next to us after they fought small craft conditions for 100 miles. They were miserable, sore, exhausted, and seasick, and ‘never again’. Often that area is smooth, but they aren’t retired. You are right that the most important resources would be time and the patience to use it. But if you have to be back home by Tuesday, you’re more likely to succumb to what aircraft accident investigation boards refer to as ‘get-home-itis’. Bottom line, the TC255’s speed is not usable in seas much above 2 feet or sustained winds over 20MPH as a practical matter. The boat won’t break, but your neck and your femurs will. We’d advise a cruise that is not subject to so much open ocean water for the first time.

Our plans for a PNW/BC Inside passage cruise were dashed this year, and per PM with Harvey, he thinks Canada is unlikely to open up by Aug 2021 either. We think it would be a shame to be that close and miss out on Canada.

There were more marinas with launch ramps and rig storage on the NY side of Lake Champlain than Burlington. (You’d have to get that holding tank Y-diverter valve figured out and remove the valve-to- overboard discharge hose section). To get to Montreal (great city) you’d have to take the Richelieu river and canal all the way up to Sorel, then fight the St Lawrence current back down to Montreal. We got our air draft down to just under the required 8 feet to take the LaChine Canal through Montreal, but then you’d have to turn around and go back through it, since the rapids at Montreal are not navigable and you want to avoid the Seaway commercial locks at all costs (single handed boats were not permitted). You could wait days, ships have priority.

A much more protected loop with much of the same territory but no Atlantic exposure is the 800-1000 mile Triangle Loop, which we did in 2019. It was a blast! Wait until summer 2022 or when Canada re-opens.

Put in and store rig at Pirate’s Cove Marina on the Erie Canal, on-site owner Paul White. Take the Oswego Canal (11 locks), cool fort and town there. Cross Lake Ontario in a weather window (we made 30 MPH while calmer than most summer days here) but it was nasty the day prior. Explore the American side of the 10,000 Islands at least up to Alexandria Bay and Boldt Castle for a week. Put up your Canadian and yellow Quarantine flag, cross over and dock and clear customs by phone at Kingston. The Rideua river and canal take you up to Ottawa, then 7 step locks down to the Ottawa river to the St Lawrence and into the Lachine canal (8 ft air draft) through Montreal while bypassing the Seaway commercial locks. Go with the St L current up to Sorel to hang a right into the Richelieu river and canal back down to the US border and check in near Rouses Point, which leads into the north end of Lake Champlain. After a few weeks there, the Chambly canal (and more locks) lead back to Waterford on the Hudson, where you re-enter the Erie Canal system. Oneida Lake required a weather day. Then back to Pirate’s Cove. About 150 locks, so get that cockpit cleat mounted.

The only big waters on this cruise are Lake Ontario, parts of the St L seaway, Lake Champlain (which you know) and Lake Oneida, ALL of which are much less likely to keep you in port for a week or two compared to what the Atlantic can do to your plans!

Option 2: Mini Dismal Swamp Loop
Norfolk to Elizabeth river, Deep creek to Dismal Swamp canal (slow speed) to Pasquotank R, North R, Coinjock, N Landing R back to Eliz R and Norfolk. Cool marinas there but lots of intense traffic. No exposure to big seas.

Option 3: Chesapeake Bay
Spend 3-6 months exploring there. Rough water possible (we had 3 days of Gale Warnings and 2 of SCA out of five weeks in June 2018).

Option 4: Lake Michigan or Superior (esp Isle Royale National Park)
Haven’t been (although Georgian Bay portion of Lake Huron is fabulous it’s in Canada). On our wish list. I hope Colby or others with experience there will sing out! Sometimes I suspect they want to keep it secret amongst themselves. All they ever say is that in August it’s cold. Colby posted a pic of his display showing 38 degree water in July.

Keep planning! Take some easier cruises and get hours behind the wheel of your own craft before challenging yourself too much. You and your boat will both be happier that way.

Hope this is helpful!
PS when others make a post like this I print it and put it in a 'pocket cruise' folder for future reference.
John

[colbysmith]

[thataway]

[tparrent]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Any long distance cruise will occur in 2022 or 2023 when I am fully retired without time constraints. For 2021 I plan to be shore based in Burlington while working remotely and taking several one or two week cruises to include the Richelieu and Erie canals. I'll probably also spend a couple weeks in New York City at Liberty Landing marina (where I lived aboard for a few months awhile back) and working at our home offices in NYC.

Many of the other places mentioned are on my must do list. Tops are Trent Severn, Ottawa, Isle Royale and Apostle Islands, Les Cheneaux, Rainy Lake/Lake of the Woods, Upper Mississippi/St. Croix. I am familiar with many of these places as I lived and sailed in Chicago and Michigan for decades.

Going slow and discovering places is great. Navigating marker to marker all day long has very little appeal to me which is why the ICW is not as interesting for me as more open water. I've heard lots of great things about Lake Powell - but it holds no interest whatsoever for me. Different strokes. PNW would be great (I've chartered there) but the upper midwest and eastern Canada are higher on my list.

The real question about the Down East route is how the boat handles in marginal conditions (because I'd stay away from open water in anything worse than marginal) and, importantly, if it will simply be too confining if I find myself laid up for a week waiting on weather. I've sailed in wicked conditions that I probably shouldn't have been out in and I enjoyed every minute of it but I know from my CD 22 experience that conditions that were sporting in a 30 foot sailboat would be extremely uncomfortable in a C Dory.

First up is local waters this coming week. The plan is to explore the Pamlico and perhaps go up the Alligator River. All subject to change on a whim.

[rstinge1]

Tom: My TomCat is in Wanchese,NC.We did a week long Carolina Loop in October. Up the Dismal Swamp Canal, back down the VA Cut thru Coinjock, down the Alligator River to Bellehaven, across the Pamlico to Ocracoke, then back home. Lots of variety and never far from protection if it blows.

[hardee]

First thing up. I don't know the cruising areas you are talking, so will pass on recomendations referring to geographical areas. The advice to get to know your boat, and to not be bound to time frame cruising for "open ocean" crossings is spot on. After owning my boat for 8 years, I retired, (ah, math is not my strong suite, so I might be off by a year or two

The summer after I retired I did my epic trip, 100 days on the boat, primarily anchoring, not a planned distance trip, so didn't cover huge miles, but spent the time covering all the inlets in the Broughtons, and around the north end of Vancouver Island. I took all my food and everything I needed for the 100 days. Stopped once at my truck and picked up my second dose of groceries, and cleaned the bottom. I had stopped a few times for laundry and fuel. Most days I was anchored for the day before 0800. out of the first 48 days, I had rain some or all of 40 days. (Saw many pairs of little animals lined up on the shorelines, waiting for a boat ride. )

Epic does not have to be grand miles, but a grand time. Plan like crazy but travel with smarts.

Harvey
SleepyC

[tparrent]

100 days in the Broughtons certainly sounds epic in many ways.

Being at anchor most days so early, how did you spend your time? Hiking, fishing, reading, contemplating life's mysteries?

[thataway]

[Rick from Maine]

The cruise you're planning is written up in the book "The Voyage of the Yankee Lady" by Judith Silva. Interesting read with insight on what to expect.

[tparrent]

Thanks! I've ordered it.

I'm always of two minds when reading books about adventures that I plan on taking. It's good to know some facts but reducing the unknowns takes away some of the adventure.

Having read five or six Great Loop books did help me decide that doing the whole loop is not my type of adventure so that's good.

[thataway]

Although I try and find as many history and boating books as possible about various places (which often helps find obscure facts and places), the reality and experience of the cruise is far different than the "picture" given in a book. Most "loopers" do a "cocktail" cruise--going from Marina to Marina, pretty much seeing the same folks who travel at the same speed. They don't explore or go to out of the way places. Salty the 22 which has done I believe 5 Great Loops in the 22, has really explored the side channels, and towns, even though he does a fairly fast loop pace.

I am sure you have looked at the guides on Nova Scotia, and the Down East Cruise. There is a web site giving all of the charts, and guide books used. It would be a great trip, but should take at least several l months to really enjoy.

[tparrent]

And thank goodness for the difference! I know some folks really enjoy the cocktail cruising style and the community of fellow travelers. I'm more of a sit in the middle of the lake and listen to loons kind of guy.

For side trips, I am looking forward to biking which, after boating, is my favorite form of transportation. I'll be taking a hard look at the boat this week to see how I am going to easily carry a full size bike. A folding bike would not work for the long rides I hope to take.

[thataway]

The bike issue was present for us when we made our cruise Calif. to Europe and back. We had some high end small folding bikes--and I would agree, they did not cut it. There are some good folding bikes--and you may already know about them. The other option is to remove wheels, and store side by side in a Sunbrella or similar pouch, and then a pouch for the frame, with handle bars turned sideways as part of the set up. This keeps the bike protected and the other objects in the boat protected from the bike.

Montague folding bikes for boating are ones to consider. They are quality, and range in price, from the $700 to $2500.

Helix might be another consideration.

I would assume that you want a hybrid type rather than a road or pure off road bike. Our experience is that some areas may involve trails which a road bike will not do well on, yet not pure mountain bike...but it has been a long time since we have been able to ride due to back issues.....

There are available now, some incredibly cheap folding full size bikes....[/url]

[journey on]

Tom, what you propose sounds wonderful. And you have the right boat. I'm a strong proponent of trailerable boats because one can take them to different places, see different things.

If you have limited time, the Nova Scotia trip sounds like a lot of fun. I've thought of it but I'm on the west coast.

I think you may have ignored some truly wonderful trips from North Carolina that can be made in a short time. One is the Eire Canal, a trip that takes one through history while having a great cruising experience. Friendliest people in the world. Took us 3 weeks in our sail boat, motoring. Another is near you; one of the great cruising grounds of North America: the Chesapeake Bay. Go up there in the spring or fall. Of course, the other is the Pacific North West.

Finally, the ICW. We did 1/2 of the Great Loop, through Florida, the Bahamas, up through the ICW to the Chesapeake and the Great Lakes via the Eire Cenal. I've often lamented the fact the the East Coast is so far from the West Coast. I'd love to have an easy several weeks to spend on the ICW. History, adventure, beauty and the weekend warriors. Annapolis, Savanna, St Augustine and the swamps of Georgia.

If you're into doing some armchair cruising, here's our adventures. First, with our sailboat and then with a (trailerable) C-Dory 25. Cruising America. The main story is how one can cruise in a 25' boat, but the stories of our trips as well as the East Coast in a sailboat with a 6' draft are there also.

Boris