Newbie questions about generators

[tparrent]

I am about to be the proud new owner of a 2017 TomCat, having had the pleasure of owning a 16 and a 22 in the past.

I have a few basic questions about generators.

1. Does the typical setup involve running a cord from the generator straight to the shorepower connection? (Told you these were basic questions )

2. Is there a consensus pick for a reliable generator?

3. How loud are the generators? The boat has twin Suzuki 175s which are whisper quiet to my ears. How does a generator compare?

4. The boat has a rooftop AC/heat unit that I would like to use on occasion while anchoring out in hot or cold weather. I know that a little heat goes a long way on a small boat and once I get the cabin warm I can probably shut it down. For AC down here in the Carolinas I'd think the boat would heat up pretty quick once the AC was turned off. Is it practical to power the unit with a generator for several hours?

5. Speaking of that AC/heat unit - is it possible to run it off the batteries while underway?

6. Does a generator supply enough juice to keep the engine starting batteries topped up?

7. Do people hook a fuel line from the boat tanks to the generator or do they carry a gas can?

Thanks for any advice you can provide (short of stay ashore!) I'm sure this new adventure will lead to some good stories.

[Pat Anderson]

There are a few people who say a portable generator has no place in the cockpit of a boat, but I am NOT one of them. Yes, the standards organizations don't like them because they are not built in and grounded. But we are not running them on 40 foot yachts either! We could not have done our Great Loop without the Honda 1000i. We had to wait out weather more than a few times over eight months, and typically those were times when the sun was not shining and our solar panels were not doing the job. The Honda kept the batteries topped off with a West Marine 30 amp fast charger. Absolutely essential by us.

The Honda 1000i did not have enough wattage to run anything inside. I very recently bought a 2000 watt WEN, which is very well reviewed and half the price of the Honda. Both the Honda and the WEN are whisper quiet. We have not used it on the boat yet. We will use it traveling in our Alaskan Camper both for charging the batteries and small electrical appliances like Patty's curling iron, maybe the portable TV. or whatever. On the boat we really don't intend to use it to run any electrical appliance, just charging the batteries. Here in the PNW we do not even understand the concept of "air conditioning" and everything else runs on propane or butane (stoves, BBQ) or diesel (Webasto heater).

Just make sure you know what your electrical loads require for startup as well as running, get generator that has sufficient power, and you should be OK using a short three wire extension cord between the generator and your shore power input.

[ssilver]

Not trying to hijack this thread but want to understand the need for a generator. I think it would be cool to have but wonder if it is even needed or how often we would use it. With dual batteries and 27 amp charge from the outboard seems adequate to charge devices,run light and electronics.The stove is alcohol. We did pickup one of those small high power jump packs if we ever drained both batteries. Is there additional devices others are running maybe an electric stove?

[rstinge1]

If I take my Tomcat overnight or longer, I take my 2K Honda with a jerry can.
I don't have A/C, but I use it when making breakfast and dinner. Although I have a two burner propane stove, I plug the generator into the shore power outlet so that I can use my drip coffee maker (1200W), and a Breville toaster oven (1800W). Just gives the galley a lot more versatility. Get the 2K. 1K isn't enough.

[JamesTXSD]

Hi Tom,

Welcome back. The standard that most folks use for a generator is the Honda e2000i; I think the newest version is the EU2200i. It is a great small generator and we found it very useful on Wild Blue. To answer some of your questions...

1. Yes, we ran ours with a cord direct to the shore power connection on the boat - used it for the microwave, the water heater, a 5,000btu a/c (in the front window), and battery charger. (One item at a time)
2. The Honda, and go with the 2000 (or 2200) over the 1,000.
3. We found the noise level to be relatively insignificant with the cabin door closed. You will hear it, but you will be able to talk over it. If you have close anchor neighbors, keep in mind that they will also hear it, so pick your times.
4. We used ours for several hours at a time on the boat. In power-loss situations at home, we have used that same generator for several days. Just make sure it has good air flow around it and mind where the exhaust goes. A CO detector in your boat should be used.
5. We didn't have a roof-top air on our boat. You would need a large inverter to run the heat strip on your a/c and it would flatten the batteries in no time. We did occasionally use a small space heater on Wild Blue, but generally when on shore power, although the Honda 2000 could run it.
6. The onboard battery charger that came with our boat was relatively low output (we replaced it after it died), but, yes, the Honda 2000 did a good job with supplying juice for the battery charger. To speed things up when needed, we also used a separate automotive battery charger when necessary.
7. Some people do use a fuel cap with a fuel line adapter, but we just used a separate gas can. The Honda generator would run for 4 hours or so before needed to be refueled, dependent on usage. In ECO-mode, it uses less fuel.

Hope that helps. The TomCat is a very capable compact cruiser. You will need a substantial truck (3/4 diesel would be my recommendation) if you decide to tow it yourself, but I think I recall that you said you would have a commercial boat mover move it on the occasions you'd want to take it north.

Good luck with this next chapter. Hope you find lots of time to use the boat. While stories would be great, you enjoying boat time is the important part. For our use, a generator made life easier when we were away from shore power. If you strap it to the swim step when not underway, the exhaust should not be coming back into the cockpit. We put ours in an Action Packer when underway - great fit and room on the side for a couple propane containers.

I'll be following along.

Best wishes,
Jim

[BTDT]

We have a Honda 2000i that sits inside a Tractor Supply aluminum box sitting between the access bars on the rear step (behind and outside the cockpit). I installed marine type snap-in 8 inch diameter round plastic access panels that I open for exhaust and intake when using.

1. Does the typical setup involve running a cord from the generator straight to the shorepower connection? (Told you these were basic questions Smile)
I routed a heavy duty outdoor rated extension cord to the breaker box under the galley table going behind the port cockpit side box, and I store the male end inside the port battery compartment when not using.

3. How loud are the generators? The Honda 2000i inverter generator is the quietest I could find. It's more expensive than most but so are C-Dory's.

4. The boat has a rooftop AC/heat unit that I would like to use on occasion while anchoring out in hot or cold weather. I know that a little heat goes a long way on a small boat and once I get the cabin warm I can probably shut it down. For AC down here in the Carolinas I'd think the boat would heat up pretty quick once the AC was turned off. Is it practical to power the unit with a generator for several hours? Yes- I power my A/C during the scorching hot summer afternoons for several hours. I haven't had to add fuel during the afternoon so not sure of the endurance time. I do leave the cover open to dissipate heat when temps are in the 90's and 100's

5. Speaking of that AC/heat unit - is it possible to run it off the batteries while underway? Not really- the amp requirements for the a/c is too high. The weight of the needed batteries would be horrendous

6. Does a generator supply enough juice to keep the engine starting batteries topped up? Yes

7. Do people hook a fuel line from the boat tanks to the generator or do they carry a gas can? I can carry a two gallon gas container on the back step if needed.

[journey on]

Well, the question of good generators comes up a couple of times per year. And there are two (2) camps: those who are willing to buy a Honda/Yamaha and those who are happy with a Chinese generator.

I have a 20 year old Honda 1000i, which charges the battery and runs a small A/C. In that time, I've changed the oil regularly and replaced a carburetor. And it's never failed on me. I'm waiting to see how the Yamaha engined Chinese built COSTCO gen does.

If you want to buy some Chinese brand, go ahead. I have no personal experience with them, but my brother buys new Harbor Freight gens every year. And if the gen costs 1/2 of the Honda, one might wonder what they did to get the cost down.

And to conclude this missive here are the following comments. Free. If you want to run a roof A/C, you're going to need a 2000 watt unit. Always buy an inverter generator, because they can respond to the load with the engine speed; lower speed as the load gets smaller. And finally, plug it into the shore power plug. Where else? It's designed to accept 120 Vac and distribute it inside the boat.

Boris

[Hunkydory]

We’ve been taking our Honda 2000 along on our SE Alaska cruises since 2007 & then in 2009 on the truck camper too. It became a must have on the Alaska cruises due to our running so much at displacement speed on only one of our at that time twin Honda 40’s, which only put out about 10 amps to the batteries. It not only kept the batteries topped off, but also when the condensation had about everything wet inside, allowed the extra drying of bedding, running a ceramic heater to make life much more comfortable. Now with twin Honda 60’s & one motor charging of about 22 amps, my 1st choice if buying new would be the Honda 1000, due to it being so much easier to move around & taking up less space, but for those needing more power & space not so much a factor the Honda 2000 or now 2200 a great choice & I believe worth the premium price. Our Honda 2000 though severely abused for 14 years, has & still does function perfectly.

If one already has a shore power nothing beats just plugging the generator into it as others here have said.

Jay

[robhwa]

Pamilco and adjacent areas where you live will be a great place for your Tomcat. I grew up on the Chesapeake and fished every coastal area down to Florida for many years. I particularly liked Pamlico fishing and gigging flounder with my uncle from Swansboro.

Having a shallow draft boat is key. I wonder if you'll be able to wade and pull the Tomcat along while gigging flounder? Maybe not, but you will be able to move through some pretty shallow areas with it.

Clearly, for generators, Honda is king, and so is the price. I'm not sold any more that Hondas are worth the premium price and currently use a 800 watt (Dirty Hands brand) on the C-Dory. It weighs less than 1/2 as much as the Honda 2200i cost a small fraction of what a Honda would, is an inverter, and starts easily. It has worked just fine for 3 years, and I can charge batteries using a Cabelas charger from the 110 volt output and run my trolling motor (through the batteries) with it as well. It will do neither quickly. It will not run an air conditioner, but I don't have one here on Puget Sound.

Having an air conditioner and trying to keep the cabin cool in your region would change things completely. You'd need more power, but you do have lots of options.

Sitting side-by-side, my current generator seems just as quiet as my portable Honda, a 2000. It will easily fit under the sink out of site until I need it. It is extremely easy to move around, kind of like a very large lunch box with a thermos of coffee.

I've owned several generators over the years, was sold on Hondas, and still have a Honda from 1993. I bought other Hondas, portable and not, and therein lies a problem.

I would add an item 8 as a warning if you do buy a Honda 1000 or 2200.

will someone steal my generator?

Answer: If it is a Honda, definitely yes. Other brands, not so much. Make sure that you don't display it by leaving it in the cockpit uncovered when not in use. Cover it with a tarp when cool. It doesn't matter how old it is, if it is a Honda, it will be a target. That includes people that see it on your boat and are willing to break into your cabin knowing that you took it inside

I hate to say this, and I do know that it may not be a problem in all areas. This seems one disadvantage of Honda generators in some areas.

[thataway]

A few comments:
1. We made a specific cord which is just the right length to go from the generator to the inlet on the bulkhead of the boat. No reason to have the 50' cord in the way.

2. Honda. Some are having good "luck" with the Chinese brands. In the past parts and service have been hard to get. Many brands don't stick around for long. Some are exact copies of the Honda--and they may be better. I have a 500 watt (800 surge) I bought in the early 1970's and 50 years and over 100,000 miles at sea, it still starts and runs well. Only maintenance has been regular oil changes. I have a 1000 watt which we used on the 22's and it will run the 5,000 watt window air conditioner--but not a roof top. We have the 2200 new Honda. It has a fuel shut off, so you can run the fuel out of the carburetor, and that saves draining the carb.

3. Noise--its there, and you know it. We keep it on the swim step or in the splash well--not in the cockpit--there is too much danger of CO poisoning when in the cockpit. We have 3 CO detectors. One at the helm level, one over each of our heads in the bunks.

4. I love the Rooftop AC's. I had one on the Tom Cat. We use the 5000 watt window on the 25 along with reflextix which helps with heat intrusion thru the windows. If I was getting another roof AC I would buy a "Easy to Start" set up. It reduces the startup load with a computer feedback to allow a much lower start up load. This way you could run the Honda 2200 on Eco mode. This uses less fuel and it is quieter. Without the easy start, the generator needs to run in full power mode all of the time, to allow enough power for the start up surge.

For heat, we use one of the cube ceramic heaters. In the 25 usually the low setting (about 800 watts) is plenty of heat at night or to take the chill off. The 1200 to 1500 watts is plenty for most cases, except parts of AK. I prefer this to running a heat strip or reverse cycle AC.

5. Yes it is possible to run both heat and air off batteries. One of my neighbors is putting in a 5,000 BTU 12 volt marine air conditioner. But--you will. have to have a setup similar to what we have: That is at least 2, 100 amp hour LiFePO4 Batteries, a pure sine wave inverter (in our case 2000 watt inv. and 80 amp charger by Victron) plus battery monitoring system. I don't know the total load with the Easy To Start unit, but I suspect you would get at least 4 hours out of two Li batteries. I ran a 5000 BTU marine unit on 4 golf cart batteries. RV's are coming with that option now in the smaller units. The cost will be somewhere in the $3500 to $5000 range for the batteries, inverter, monitor and battery to battery charger.

6, Yes, the generator thru a good battery charger will keep the batteries topped off. We have the Norco 30 amp 3 bank charger. The Li bank has a separate 80amp and 10 amp (for maintenance and slow charge) charger.

7. From the Tom Cat the run is too far and the fuel pump on the Honda is not adequate. There are problems with the design that a low pressure electric pump does not seem to work--I haven't seen any recent posts on that, but in the past it didn't work. We do have a "tap" on the lines for either an auxiliary outboard, or a squeeze bulb to fill the generator from the tank. I also have a 6 gallon Honda plastic outboard tank, we can run the generator off. It has to sit in the splash well or a seat, and as another noted, there is a special fuel cap which allows vacuum and the fuel pump to pull the fuel over to the Honda Tank. We carry a 2 gallon gas can for the Honda.

8. We have other uses for the Honda--and inverter. Microwave, cooking on induction "burners", and charging batteries (Torqeedo, Ryobie fan, and inflator for the inflatable boat.) If the engine run is not enough to top off the Li batteries,, we charge them and also use the microwave or inverter at the same time.

9. We also use the jump pack for at times charging computer, I pad and cell phones, as well as powering the high pressure pump for the air floor in the inflatable boat. That avoids long 12 volt "extension cords".

[T.R. Bauer]

You will absolutely hear it. And feel it too. I thought a lot of the tomcats had built in gensets. Am I confused?

[thataway]

Rob brought up the theft issue--and it is valid. I took the feet off my Honda 2000, and mounted it on a stack of neoprene 1/8" thick washers, thru 1/2" thick Starboard, which is securely fastened to the boat. Just for good measure I also put one of the"Kyprtonite" bike cable locks thru the handle...And I have a Shelter Rite cover which snaps over it.... I would not leave it out in the middle of a big city, where the wheels might be stolen off the truck, but so far no one has tried to take it...

[ssobol]

On my 22 I use a Honda EU1000. This goes on a stand on the swim step with a strap to secure it. I can run it off the internal tank or I have a 3 gal outboard tank with the proper attachments that allows the Honda to run a VERY long time.

The Honda 1000 is sufficient to run the 5000 BTU AC unit I have. I can also run the battery charger, but not both at the same time. My Honda will run in ECO mode with the AC. It just revs up when the compress comes on, but even with the AC compressor on, it is not running at full speed.

I find that it is much quicker to charge the boat batteries by running the engine anyway. 1000 RPM on the engine will put about 28 amps into the batteries. My boat is much quieter with the engine at 1000 RPM than at regular idle anyway (resonance is different).

The Honda will also run a small electric heater.

We only carry the generator when we know we will need 120VAC and won't have access to shore power.

Space is at a premium on the 22. The Honda 1000 is smaller and lighter than the 2000.

[tparrent]

Thank you for all the useful information. I certainly see a generator in my future.

I will be bringing the boat home next weekend on a two day cruise up the ICW. That will give me a lot of time to get familiar with the boat and systems.

I'll probably anchor out and it looks to be cold so that's a good test of how much I need heat. I've got a small camper propane heater I'll run for a few minutes before turning in. It always heated up my large ten quickly so I'm sure the boat will be even toastier. Turn it back on in the morning for a few minutes and I should be good to go.

Nice to back amongst the always helpful C Brats!

[bobjarrard]

The latest version of the Honda 2000 has Blue Tooth, a nice app, and you can turn it off with your phone. It is 2200 watts with a higher max continuous load rating than the older 2000 (which I have had for ten years or so). The new models have a fuel shut off switch, the older ones do not. You can bi-fuel with propane if you want, not too costly. The Hondas far out number the Yamahas and others in the RV world as in 10 to 1. If you can live with a 1000, it is much easier to carry and mount. Here is the link to the best of the long run adapters, John is a nice guy to boot!
https://www.ebay.com/str/brucejonh?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
Hutch Mountain is likely the go to company for propane conversion at
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Honda-EU2200i-Propane-Generator-Conversion-Kit/202244184724?hash=item2f16b15a94:g:2GkAAOSwHbpfme~Z
Rule #1 - Try to buy ethanol free gas
Rule #2 - Change the oil often
And, how to remote the exhaust at https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=Honda+2000++generator+exhaust+diverter&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=Honda+2000++generator+exhaust
See ya, Bob Jarrard (and "Hi" Jim, good to see you here). BJ