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Dubuque chad



Joined: 06 Jul 2019
Posts: 24
City/Region: Dubuque
State or Province: IA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Laura J
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:51 pm    Post subject: Anchor choice Reply with quote

A couple of questions. I am replacing a anchor rode and chain on a 25. She has a lewmar 700. The previous anchor was a delta wing anchor. It didn't seem to hold well in the mud, I'm thinking of moving to a claw anchor but I am conserved about its ability to self launch as the geometry looks different.
Any opinions?
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much does it weigh? I have a 21 lb Lewmar Claw anchor that I doubt I'll use. It came with the boat when I bought it earlier this year, and I replaced that anchor with a 14 lb Delta. If yours is the next size bigger, I'll trade you the Claw for the Delta. I think the Claw will work on the same roller system as the Delta. Colby
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anchoring considerations:
1. What are the typical bottoms?
2. What are the typical holding considerations, lunch, overnight, quiet water, river current -unidirectional or tidal - bidirectional?
3. Hand launch or windlass?

Over several types of anchors, and many years, I have settled on a spade type, (where the anchor flat is concave shaped -- dish shaped) rather than a plow type, which apears to also be called a "wing" although I have not heard that tearm used before. The concave surface of the spade, lifts and compacts the substrate in front of it, making it harder, firmer, and increasing the difficulty of the anchor to move in the substrate, what ever it is.

I switched from a Delta "plow (or wing according to this article*) to a Rocna 6 and have had excellent holding in rocky, muddy, clayish and mixed shell-gravel bottoms for the last four years. NO drag, not one time and I have had a couple of pretty windy (15 to 25 knot) anchorages. That is more than I can say for the Delta and it sets better than my Bruce ever did.

Highly recommend the Rocna or if it works with your launcher, a Vulcan. Great spade physics.

https://www.usharbors.com/2020/01/boating-101-how-to-choose-the-best-boat-anchor-type/

A good article, EXCEPT they include the spade anchors in the plow catagory and call them a new generation with as roll bar. The Rocna is also exclaimed as the "highest holding power". There is a huge difference in the physics of a plow and a spade.

AS to the rode, on a 25, I would consider at least a 50 feet lenght of chain, or more, but that would be my minimum.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon


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bridma



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rocna or Manson Supreme is my 5 cents worth. Manson is cheaper. I have never had or needed self-launching but the Rocna would be best IMO.

As for chain (high test) I agree with Harvey, 50ft minimum.

Martin.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that the Valcun, Ronca or Manson Supreme are probably some of the best anchors. If you want the best anchor for mud--the Danforth High Test or Fortress. The Fortress has 2 positions: mud and soft mud. Another anchor not usually mentioned is the Super Max. I don't know if one would fit on the pulpit of the C Dory, without modification.

The "Claw = Bruce" are very popular in the PNW. It would not be my first choice of an anchor for mud or sand.

I carry a 22# Delta on my C Dory 25. I have an 11X fortress on the bow also. I have several 6/7X Fortress/Guardian anchors for stern or kedge. If I were to buy another anchor it would be the 20# Vulcan.

When I was long distance cruising I had 8 anchors. 2 Large 60 and 70# CQR Plows, 4 Danforth all High Tensile (70#, 40#, 20# and 12#). Two Fishermen--one 70# and the other 150#, with 1/2' chain and 1" rope....Today we have the second and 3rd generation anchors--such as Mantus, Spade, Vulcan, Ronca, Manson Supreme. The Boss was a great anchor--but for some reason discontinued.

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Thataway
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bridma



Joined: 13 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are correct Bob. There are a lot of Bruce anchors in the PNW. Also a lot of boats I have seen in the marinas with a Bruce that never leave the marina, or do short hops with no anchoring involved. With over 30 years in the same marina, I know a lot of guys (and gals) who use their boats regularly. None that I can think of use a Bruce! Over the years I have bought 3 boats that came with a Bruce (including Nomad), it is the first item I remove from the boat.

Martin.
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tsturm



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: Anchor choice Reply with quote

Dubuque chad wrote:
A couple of questions. I am replacing a anchor rode and chain on a 25. She has a lewmar 700. The previous anchor was a delta wing anchor. It didn't seem to hold well in the mud, I'm thinking of moving to a claw anchor but I am conserved about its ability to self launch as the geometry looks different.
Any opinions?


22# Lewmar Claw works for me in all bottoms I have tried it in, sand, mud, gravel, rocks, what ever, so far? I switched to 100' of chain also a few years back. In my experience the amount of chain is as important if not more important than anchor type.
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where is everyone buying their chain? I'm currently running 20 foot of chain ahead of 300 feet of 8 plait rode. I'd like to switch to 50-100 feet of chain with 200 feet of rode. Colby
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journey on



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, goody! Another anchor discussion. And I'll put my 2 cents in. Just my opinion.

We've traveled through the PNW many times, from the top of Vancouver Isle to the bottom of Puget Sound. I've used a Bruce for anchoring there in Journey On, a 25. I have found that the PNW as a lot of mud and the Bruce does well in mud with its claw shape. And it always launches without any help. For the PNW, it's the best.

If you have mud, which doesn't have much cohesiveness, a Manson/ blade type of anchor pulls right through the mud. I have a Manson and I feel it's not for mud. And a plow is a plow, designed to move soil; that was my CQR.

That said, when I anchor in SoCal I have to anchor in seaweed and rocks. For that, I use a Danforth which has sharp points and will penetrate the grass. I will interchange the Danforth with the Manson depending on my mood.

Any anchor will set and hold in sand. All the tests are in sand because sand is kind to anchors. Florida has a lot of sand.

So, Bruce north and Danforth south.

Boris
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the plow plowing in mud, but not in my experience the Manson or especially my Manson Boss. The reason I switched to the Manson Supreme & then Boss was due to my 22 Lb claw not holding in soft mud & some difficulty getting a set in other bottom types other then the typical PNW shell/small rock/hard mud combo. The Boss & supreme set much easier in all bottom types then the claw & would think the other similar anchors like them would do the same. I too sang the praises of the Claw until making the switch to the Manson type. The reason I made the change up was due to trying to anchor in the soft mud of Gut Bay Alaska & after many attempts not being able to get a set with the claw. In very shallow clear water I could see why it wouldnít set. The wide set claw would scoop up the mud in the claw, then with no contact point to dig deeper just skate across the mud bottom surface. On a later cruise in the same place with the Manson Boss it would instantly dig in, bury & hold.

I prefer a large heavier anchor then most would consider. My present set up, which has worked extremely well for us through our last 3 SE Alaska cruises combines a Lewmar 700H windless with wireless remote, 25 lb Manson Boss anchor, Mantus anchor swivel, 50 feet 1/4 inch high test ACCO chain & 250 feet of 1/2 inch 8 brait rode. The back up is a 15 lb Mantus Supreme with 25 feet of 1/4 inch ACCO chain. With 5 extended Alaska cruises made with the claw anchor & the last 3 with the Manson type, perhaps a evaluation worth considering.

Jay

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Last edited by Hunkydory on Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:21 pm; edited 2 times in total
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Any anchor will set and hold in sand.


This is where I disagree with the Bruce. We had rescued a fellow who had been shipwrecked on the coast of Mexico (Long story), but he was able to bring high end dive gear, a 2 hp Honda, and a a 22 Lb Bruce (which had drug and allowed his boat to be caught in the surf in relatively calm wind conditions.). We dropped him off in Costa Rica as he flew to the Caribbean to teach sailing at one of the schools...!!! We were to give the gear to a friend of his who would bring it to the Caribbean in a 27 foot boat he was planing to sail there the next year.

We were being pushed agains a small pier with some good beam winds in Roatan Honduras. So I wanted to put out a spring anchor. This would be a great time to try out this 22# genuine Bruce. I put it out 10 times up to a 10 to 1 scope and winched it directly back to the boat each time. This was fine coral sand. I then took out my "lunch hook" a Danforth 12# HT which was a very well proven anchor.
On the first set, I winched the 65,000# boat off the pier and it held for the next 5 days, until we departed. I had also used the same 12# HT Danforth to winch the boat off several piers in up to 50 knots beam wind...

Of course the fellow we rescued's friend didn't have room for any of the gear on his boat, so it was all sold at "Sailor Man" a consignment shop in Ft Lauderdale.

Quote:
I'm currently running 20 foot of chain ahead of 300 feet of 8 plait rode. I'd like to switch to 50-100 feet of chain with 200 feet of rode.


Colby, unless I was planing a lot of boating in AK or places with high tides, I would not go with the 100' of chain. If I was doing AK, then I would stick with the 300' 8 plait. Why do you want to decrease the rode?

Colby, if you do go with more chain, be sure and use American Made hot dip galvanized chain. ACCO is American made: West Marine price is $4.49 a foot, Defender is $2.41 a foot! You may find the cheapest price at SECO South Rigging in Largo, FL. They sell online. They advertise "Peerless Chain". Peerless Chain says they have 3 manufacturing facilities, but decline to state what country they are located in. Your call.. I know of people who have used the Peerless chain. I also have seen some Chinese made chain, "Grade 40 HT" which has broken....
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Hunkydory



Joined: 28 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also noticed on my first Alaska trips & even before we started doing our SE Alaska cruises, the fishing boats all primarily used Claw, Navy & Danforth anchors, which led me to think the Claw for our use would be good. Later it has occurred to me these style anchors in the heavy versions with equally heavy chains do work well & still do with the cost of replacement to better present types not worth the expense to the fishermen. In our case where the lighter anchors are so much less expensive & the newer types really more effective, the upgrade like most other improvements made in boating worth the expense of upgrading.

Jay
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

World wide probably the most common fishing boat anchor is a variant of the Northhill Pattern--problem is that these and anchor do not sit well on a C Dory bow pulpit.

I reluctantly sold my folding Stanless Steel WWII Northill used on the PBY's...The Northill Pattern is often welded up by local machine shops.
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PaulNBriannaLynn



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out Secco South. We bought a 250' 8 plait rode spliced with 40' of chain from them and it was very reasonable comparatively.

I'll probably get flamed for this but I happen to like the claw anchor for what we do. We've run a 22 lb lewmar bruce copy on both of our c-dory's. It's predictable and seems to set easily enough. I've trusted it with my family many nights, and has never let me down in sand and muddy conditions that we're accustomed to. Yes I've seen the youtube videos and read the marketing from manson and rocna and all the others. But my anchor was fifty bucks! If it gets hung up and I have to leave it, its not the end of the world. The main thing is I trust it and know how to set it quickly.

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Hunkydory



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, no flame coming from me. It has worked well for a lot of folks including me. In your post you brought up what is the best reason for continuing or starting out with the claw & thatís simply the cost to purchase, replace or in my past caseís, availability to purchase a decent anchor quickly in areas where better choices are not available. During our first 5 SE Alaska cruises, twice, I lost my then 22 lb Lewmar Claws & readily found cheap replacements. First time in Petersburg & the 2nd in Haines, Alaska. The Lewmar claw is a good cheap anchor for the PNW & seems good for you in Florida too, however Iíve found the improvements made in my present anchor choice, well worth the increase in price to me & hoping the experience Iíve gained from previous anchor losses, lower the chance of losing the present more expensive one.

Jay
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