View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
TyBoo
Joined: 23 Oct 2003 Posts: 5313 City/Region: Warrenton
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruise Ship
Vessel Name: TyBoo
Photos: TyBoo
|
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I bought a genuine Espar for a lot less than the cost of the heater we're talking about here. The cost was so good I even doubled it and called it a tip.
To quote the seller on the original price:
Quote: | shit, I tell ya what, I can let that thing go for a box of Pacifico beer |
I had to buy a new pump and the ducting that brought the total cost up to a couple hundred bucks, but the heater and controller was about twenty bucks. You don't find deals like that too often. _________________ TyBoo Mike
Sold: 1996 25' Cruise Ship
Sold: 1987 22' Cruiser |
|
Back to top |
|
|
T.R. Bauer
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 1726 City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
|
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lots of people use them up here - a good friend has one in his boat and it really kicks out heat and it's quieter than the furnace in my RV. They are a bargain and I too am strongly thinking about installing one. Having some heat up in the "v" would be nice too. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Peter & Judy
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 550 City/Region: Olds
State or Province: AB
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Mistaya
Photos: Mistaya
|
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | Just curious, why folks get all upset about Chinese tires, but recommend Chinese heaters? Personally, I'd stick with the Webasto over the Chinese knockoffs. I realize the Webasto (actually made in Germany) cost quite a bit more. But you are putting a little box with hot fire inside your boat. I'd much rather go with a trusted and proven unit. They have been very reliable for me in both Midnight Flyer, and my newest unit I installed in C-Traveler. Just my two cents. Colby |
I'm with Colby. I'm just finishing the install on a Wabatso heater. We are planning to cruise in the wettest part of Canada (Prince Rupert & Kitimat) next year and a little more heat than my Wallace will help keep us more comfortable. I considered one of the Chinese heaters and I had a couple of reasons for not using one, even if it would save me a few hundred bucks. The first being that I have tens of thousands of dollars invested in my boat and why cheap out on some parts of it. Secondly and most importantly is personal safety. The German made units are very high quality, well tested and proven. They are less likely to cause a fire in my boat or leak CO poisoning me and my wife overnight. I would hate to be in a dangerous situation anchored in some remote bay of the Alaskan panhandle and have a boat fire or medical emergency. I am very safety conscious with most things I do and cutting corners often leads to dangerous situations. I have learned this working in the petroleum industry, on my bison ranch, mountain climbing or backcountry skiing in avalanche terrain. My and my wife's lives are worth more than a savings of a few hundred bucks. _________________ Peter & Judy Haase
Buffalo Horn Ranch
HMCB Mistaya
"Mistaya" (Grizzly Bear in Cree)
HMCB (Her Majesties Cute Boat) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gulfcoast john
Joined: 14 Dec 2012 Posts: 989 City/Region: PENSACOLA
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2010
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Cat O' Mine
Photos: CAT O' MINE
|
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
We agree with Colby (he will not be used to this) and with you.
Buy Quality the first time.
I understand the 'throw away' theory, but I for one agree it is indeed a safety of life issue on a trailer boat.
Others may disagree, and that is like it should be.
We want a safe, warm, UL approved solution for a hoped for BC Inside Passage in Aug 2021.
What do you experts advise?
PM me if you don't want exporsure to partisans.
Stay safe and healthy out there!
John _________________ John and Eileen Highsmith
2010 Tom Cat 255, Cat O' Mine
Yamaha F150, LXF150 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ssobol
Joined: 27 Oct 2012 Posts: 3371 City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
|
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just to be Devils Advocate here, but a higher price does not automatically mean higher quality. There are lots of reasons that product A has a higher price than product B. One reason could be that product A is a higher quality product than product B and their manufacturing costs are higher.
Another reason could be that product A hired some well known personality to flog product A and they need to recover that cost. There are many examples of this.
Perhaps product A is produced in a country that has high overheads that must be accounted for that product B is not subject to but have no direct bearing on the quality of the end product (e.g. 52 weeks maternity leave).
To automatically say that a Chinese product that is lower price than a similar European product must be lower in quality without taking in the broader picture of the whole economy in each case is to take a rather narrow view IMO. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Posts: 4545 City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
|
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
I’d go with the Webasto John. It works extremely well and has a proven track record. If you decide to go that route let me know and I can email you my invoices showing the retailers and part numbers for the accessories like exhaust thru-hull, fuel tank, mount and exhaust tube insulation. You can look around to get the best price on the main Webasto air top unit, but stay away from the Russian company selling them on Amizon! Or you can just pay a little more and order it all right from scan marine (or the company that sells the Wallis). Colby |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jkidd
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 1615 City/Region: Northern, Utah
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Voyager
Photos: Voyager (JK)
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Peter & Judy
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 550 City/Region: Olds
State or Province: AB
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Mistaya
Photos: Mistaya
|
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Good Video.
Winter came early here in Alberta, so I have not finished installation on my Wabatso yet. But after watching this video, I feel that I made the right decision. I could have bought the cheap Chinese heater, but then I could also have bought a Bayliner for half the price of a C-Dory as well. I plan to keep the C-Dory for many years and since I live in Canada and plan to boat primarily in colder northern regions like the northern BC coast and Alaska, I think it will be money well spent in the long term. I find cheap tools tend to break when you need them most. Being German, I also like tools and products with the "Made in Germany' sticker on them as it usually equals a quality product. I equate 'Made in China' with disposable products, not always, but often enough. This is fine for something you are going to only use once or twice. So my vote goes to the Germans and not the Chinese. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
starcrafttom
Joined: 07 Nov 2003 Posts: 7881 City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
|
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ssobol is completely right. price does not equal quality. lot of price is advertizing or the original engineering. China is good at ripping off others ideas and producing them cheaply. I owned a 71 dastun 510. When they were new they were half the price of any ford or chevy. BEST built and engineered car I ever owned. At the time datsun did not spend a lot on advertising it and it was built were labor was cheaper. but still best built car I have owned.
I do not know if these heaters are good or not or just good enough but for people on a budget the price is worth looking in to. I have always thought the espars and wallas are overpriced, over complicated ( wallas stove is a fing night mare to repair) in design . I bought my espar heater ( which I love) for far less then the local boat shops wanted at the time by getting it off of craigslist as a unit for autos. Was told by many of the same Karen's here that it must be junk or not made for marine use etc etc. WEll eight years later I have not had to touch it other then replace the stainless steel exhaust this year. ( my fault for a bad install now fitted) .
So posted this to share ideas and info not condemn products I have not seen yet. _________________ Thomas J Elliott
http://tomsfishinggear.blogspot.com/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20803 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
|
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The video makes some points about safety issues, and the possibility of combustion products (including C0) getting into the boat thru the mounting plate or muffler (if used), but the exhaust hose looks very weak also.
My impression is that when the production is supervised by a good company that Chinese products can be of good quality. For example Nordhavn Yachts were made there for some time. (Taiwan, Thialand and Turkey now I believe--maybe some still in China). I have had some optical products and electronics from reliable firms which were good quality.
On the other hand, to compare Harbor Freight with a quality tool from Milwaukee there is a real difference. Most of the Harbor Freight tools, I have purchased and used were either mechanical, like a clamp, or for a one time use--such as a small diameter cutt off wheel. I picked up a Dremel knock Off--and it was crap--same with their bits etc.
If I were buying the heater, I would go with the genuine product. It's like boat anchors--there are some knock off of CQR, but they never held as well as the CQR. Would I trust my boat to Chinese chain? No.
About a year ago, I bought a copy of a German electrical switch off Amazon. The first time it had a 200 amp load (rated for 300 amps,( the "real deal" had often been loaded over 300 amps.). there was a spectacular failure with arcing, melting of the plastic and sparks....not a warm and fuzzy feeling on a boat! _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lawrence11
Joined: 21 Oct 2020 Posts: 1
|
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
singlecross wrote: | I'll be installing one of the Amazon Chinese diesel heaters in my 22 Cruiser next week. I'll let you know how it goes. |
Can you help me with the name of the brand of this diesel heater you just quoted. Do post your experience on it too. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Posts: 4545 City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
|
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | Was told by many of the same Karen's here |
Cool! We have indigenous people of Burma and Thailand here?
Ka·ren
/kəˈren/
plural noun: Karens
1.
a member of an indigenous people of eastern Burma (Myanmar) and western Thailand.
2.
the language of the Karen, probably Sino-Tibetan. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ssobol
Joined: 27 Oct 2012 Posts: 3371 City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
|
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
thataway wrote: | ... My impression is that when the production is supervised by a good company that Chinese products can be of good quality. .... |
All your iPhones come from China. Not a lot of complaints about their quality.
Up to a point you get what you pay for. However, some things cost a lot for other reasons besides the design, materials, and actual manufacturing costs (e.g. cache).
FWIW, according to people I know in China, the Chinese see the price tag as an indicator of quality. You can sell crap stuff at high prices and the Chinese will think it's a great product because of "Look at how much it cost!" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
colbysmith
Joined: 02 Oct 2011 Posts: 4545 City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
|
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don’t believe everything from China is bad. But in this situation we are talking about diesel heaters for/on our boats. We may be paying more for the name recognition or just due to supply and demand. If you’re happy with a throwaway heater or with one that is comparably inexpensive, go for it. I stuck with the high priced Webasto due to my experience with it and the recommendation of a mechanic that has experience with them. And for my peace of mind! Colby |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Marco Flamingo
Joined: 09 Jul 2015 Posts: 1155 City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Limpet
Photos: Limpet
|
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I didn't quite throw away my Webasto. Somebody gave me $75 for the parts because they are so ridiculously expensive.
I thought some of the criticism in the video was clearly biased with the seller/installer making stuff up to justify the extra $500-$1K difference in price. For instance, the Chinese one had more and thinner cast aluminum fins. Yes, they would break easier if you hit them with a hammer. On the other hand, the casting would require more expertise and the heat transfer would be more efficient. Is your plan to hit it with a hammer or use it as a heater?
Criticism like the video often reveals the end of an era. Remember when the little Honda came out? Why buy a car from a Japanese motorcycle company when for $500 more you could buy an American Motors Gremlin? Now we know. Regardless of the claims at the time, the market sorted it out. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|