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PNW_Wesley
Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Posts: 97 City/Region: Vancouver
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
Vessel Name: Zenith
Photos: Zenith
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:44 am Post subject: Backing plate for Lewmar pivoting bow roller? |
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My new pivoting bow roller (Lewmar 66840007) will arrive next week. I will be installing it myself.
Other than using large washers below the deck, is it advisable to use some form of backing plate to reinforce the deck?
Zenith has a Maxwell HR6 windlass, and a 5 kg Bruce anchor. _________________ Wesley and Karen
Prior water toys:
15' Smoker Craft
14' SOAR Inflatable Kayak
18' Sea Ray
28' Bayliner
19' Smoker Craft
16' Duracraft
14' Starcraft |
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tsturm
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 1134 City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Backing plate for Lewmar pivoting bow roller? |
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PNW_Wesley wrote: | My new pivoting bow roller (Lewmar 66840007) will arrive next week. I will be installing it myself.
Other than using large washers below the deck, is it advisable to use some form of backing plate to reinforce the deck?
Zenith has a Maxwell HR6 windlass, and a 5 kg Bruce anchor. |
I used a piece of 1/4 Alu. for a backing plate & nylocks. |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20818 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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I would either use Fender washers or an aluminum backing plate. Be sure that you over drill the holes, cut back core, and fill with thickened epoxy, then drill the final bolt holes.
Remember there should not be a lot of load on that roller, Anchoring load shoaled be on the snubber lines from either the main blow cleat or secondary cleats placed on the side of the foredeck. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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PNW_Wesley
Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Posts: 97 City/Region: Vancouver
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
Vessel Name: Zenith
Photos: Zenith
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the excellent suggestions, which I will follow.
My wife and boated and anchored on the Mississippi for 17 years, and we have now logged more than 500 miles on the Columbia.
Since having the windlass installed, I have enjoyed anchoring 4 times, in the full current, with headwinds and tailwinds, from 16 to 35 feet deep, using various scopes to test the system. I keep all the data, including wind speed and direction, in my log.
I use a wired remote, and stand on the berth while using it. This lets me watch the rode as it goes out, while I wait to see the effect of the wind and current. This reduces the potential for the slack rode to drift under the boat toward the prop.
After the anchor reaches the bottom, I hold the down button for about 5 seconds, and let the slack get taken up. I can then let it out with 5 to 10 second bursts, and see how well it is holding with each length.
Just north of Multnomah Falls, midstream at 35 feet and a 12 mph headwind, it held nicely with a scope of about 3. With all 210 feet out, we enjoyed lunch without budging.
I will post some pictures while using the new bow roller. |
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Barry Rietz
Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 409 City/Region: Sierra Vista
State or Province: AZ
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:07 pm Post subject: Anchor Roller Installation |
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Wesley, It is very unlikely that you will find balsa core in the foredeck area that the "pivoting roller" will be installed. Any undue stress will be one of "sheer" upon the deck bolts, not "tension", as a backup plate would demand. And as Bob has suggested, best that you assemble a short "snubber" line using a "grab hook" if the rode is chain, or a rolling hitch if line, that attaches to the vessels bow eye while at anchor. _________________ Barry Rietz
N9DXC |
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PNW_Wesley
Joined: 28 Nov 2019 Posts: 97 City/Region: Vancouver
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
Vessel Name: Zenith
Photos: Zenith
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Anchor Roller Installation |
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Barry Rietz wrote: | It is very unlikely that you will find balsa core in the foredeck area that the "pivoting roller" will be installed. |
Bob Austin implied there is balsa core in the mounting area.
Would Bob or Barry please comment about the balsa core? |
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Barry Rietz
Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 409 City/Region: Sierra Vista
State or Province: AZ
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:37 pm Post subject: Bow Roller Installation |
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Wesley, If you intend mounting the "pivoting bow roller" at the extreme foredeck bow, where it was designed to be mounted, that part of the deck should be solid glass. (in order to enjoy the "pivoting function" of the roller, it would require it be located there) If, when you drill holes to mount the roller and you find other than a solid glass substrate, the boat builder has been remiss in providing extra strength in the fiberglass layup at this critical stress area. |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12633 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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Wesley, You said:
Quote: | "Since having the windlass installed, I have enjoyed anchoring 4 times, in the full current, with headwinds and tailwinds, from 16 to 35 feet deep, using various scopes to test the system. I keep all the data, including wind speed and direction, in my log." |
You can look in where the chain goes through the fore-deck and see the thickness and even the layers there. Does that same thickness translate forward to your mounting position? If Yes, it is cored. If no, It is not cored.
Might just be me, but I would use at least to layers of fender washers, (stainless steel), each layer (washer) as separate, different size, the smaller one next to the Nylex nut, the larger one above that.... and I would probably back the whole piece with a piece of good thick hard plastic cutting board. ( I think that would be like HDPE or what we used to call, Poly Pro. It will have a bit of flexibility to conform but will also add good backing strength.
But then, that is just me.
Harvey
SleepyC
_________________ Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
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jkidd
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 1617 City/Region: Northern, Utah
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Voyager
Photos: Voyager (JK)
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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I replace my bow roller and mine was cored there. _________________ Jody Kidd
KE7WNG
Northern, Utah
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20818 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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My experience is that there is coring in the way where the roller is bolted. Barry is probably correct that the very first bolt (depending on the roller) is gong thru solid glass. The core stops just before the downward lip of the hull mold is formed.
Having epoxy plugs will prevent core compression--which is why one puts plates under the bolts for the bow roller. I have but heavy aluminum plates under my larger boats--but the load on the C Dory anchor roller should not be huge. Again, the epoxy plug should take a lot of the compression load.
If you have aluminum plate handy, it is easy to drill out... SS, a bit tougher. Any high density plastic would also work. |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12633 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:22 am Post subject: |
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My reasoning for not using aluminum would be to keep from mixing metals. The bolts would be stainless, and unless you use something to keep them from contacting the aluminum, (I used nylon bushings on my Radar tower base), you have mixed metal and eventually a corrosion issue.
Harvey
SleepyC
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clayhubler
Joined: 03 Aug 2019 Posts: 280 City/Region: La Center
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hammerhead
Photos: Hammerhead
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Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:38 am Post subject: |
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I just put a pivoting bow roller on my 2003 22 and it was cored there.
Wesley- If you need only need a little epoxy and filler I have some and I believe you have my number from a previous PM. No need to buy it if that is the only thing you need it for. _________________ Clay on Hammerhead
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clayhubler
Joined: 03 Aug 2019 Posts: 280 City/Region: La Center
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hammerhead
Photos: Hammerhead
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Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:40 am Post subject: |
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I also have aluminum if you want to make a backing plate.
Somebody, please correct me if I'm wrong but I think aluminum and ss are okay together when above the water line? |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20818 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:22 am Post subject: |
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clayhubler wrote: | I also have aluminum if you want to make a backing plate.
Somebody, please correct me if I'm wrong but I think aluminum and ss are okay together when above the water line? |
You should use something like Tef-Gel on the threads where it contracts the aluminum. An example is the mast of a sailboat. In the mast, you are actually putting screws into the aluminum of the mast. But I also put TefGel on the bolt s where it contacts the aluminum--such as a bail at the top of the mast, or thru bolts with internal tubes at the spreaders/shroud supports. Is it essential for the C Dory? Probably not, but I do it anyway.
There can still be some corrosion of the aluminum from galvanic action, even in the high humidity of the anchor locker area.
SS fittings are the proper ones to use for the aluminum backing plate.
On our Cal 46, to get a live aboard slip, we had to get the LOA down to 45'. This included a custom double roller weldment. We thru bolted a 3/8" thick SS plate to the deck, with a large aluminum backing plate, including the windlass fastenings and coated the the threads with TefGel where the screws passed thru the plate. |
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Barry Rietz
Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 409 City/Region: Sierra Vista
State or Province: AZ
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Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:14 pm Post subject: Bow Roller Installation |
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Early this morning I crawled up into the forepeak of my 1991 Toland built 22' Cruiser and found "SOLID" fiberglass across the entire foredeck area! Since the 19' C-Dory shares the same mold configuration as the 22', I would like to assume they are the same. However, the difference in model years, and the fact that another factory built Wesleys 19', I would not hazard that guess. Perhaps if Wesley would photograph the underside of the forepeak deck area, one of us will be able to make a final determination. Would someone please explain why the "pivoting" anchor roller has advantages over the fixed type? My thoughts lean toward retaining the fixed anchor roller, especially if a remote operated windless is installed, since in an emergency, the chain and line could hackle and jam in the bail. This would require going forward at a time when one would rather not! |
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