Anchor is next on the checklist...

[garyf]

Continuing with the revival of C-Story...

Apparently my dad wasn't big on anchoring - no windlass, no chain/rode - he had a couple Danforth-type anchors stashed in the garage (two different sizes and I don't know the sizes at the moment... I'll have to go to storage and check).

I've read through many of the threads in this section.

Looks like the Lewmar 700 is most popular windlass? Anyone want to chime in on that?

I looked at Defender and their pre-built chain/rode packages have a lot less chain than I'd like... based on the comments here, I'm thinking the 70 foot ballpark would be good for chain? I see a couple people talking about going all chain? Is that just to work better in the windlass or ?

Is there a better supplier for chain/rode than Defender? Ideally, I'd love to find a supplier that either has something with more chain on hand as a prebuilt package, or put it together to my specs with a high quality splice... and even better if they'd paint/mark the last 20-25 ft of chain for me (and deliver fairly quickly??)

I peeked into the chain locker and it appears that it's never been touched. I've seen comments and pictures regarding the installation of a drain, but haven't run across anything regarding the standard (or best) way to attach the rode in the locker - did I miss conversation and/or pictures on that somewhere?

Unlike my dad, I can imagine times I'd want to anchor for sure... and I also consider it a safety item.

You guys are doing a great job helping me spend my money I appreciate the help!!

Oh - and should I just go with one of the anchors my dad has already, or is there a good argument to get something else? I won't have to deal with reefs... I'll mostly be anchoring in fairly shallow water in freshwater lakes and reservoirs... possibly in Sacramento or American river, delta, BF Bay...

[journey on]

Well, this is going to be a long drawn out thread. So, I'll get my comments in first.

First, I think the Danforth is a good all around anchor. It sets well in most any surface, will store on your bow and holds a heavy load. Another plus is you already have one. And I've tried a lot of different anchors. I've used a CQR, claw and a Ronca aas well as a Danforth. I still think the hi-test Danforth is the best of all for Calif.

If you buy the Lewmar 700 windlass, buy the horizontal one so that the dirt, sand, mud doesn't fall off on the chaincase. I lost a vertical 600 and the sand had fallen into the gearcase and ground everything up. The factory has changed from the vertical to the horizontal.

70 ft of chain is good. I have/had 70' and the anchor set and held well. Buy the chain and road and then either splice them yourself ( lots of info on the internet,) or take them to West marine and have them splice it.

Good luck.

Boris

[thataway]

There are a number of places which will do splices and chain to. your length. It is nice to learn to do the splice yourself. I you do much anchoring you will end for end your rode periodically. SECO South is one place mentioned in The Hull Truth as making custom rotes at a decent price. I have never used them. Defender will do custom splices. I like to go with name brand line: Sampson, Yale, New England Ropes, etc

Some go with 100 feet or more chain. It puts a lot of weight way up in the bow. It is good going into chop--but going down waves it is safer not to have as much weight there. It does work well with a windlass, and I believe the Lewmar 700 is the best "buy".

I have 50' of chain, and 300 feet of 8 plait braid--I do my own splices. I did a tutorial and links on it in the past. 70 feet of chain would be reasonable. In the Delta and Calif. Rivers 70' would be over kill most of the time--even in the tidal areas.

The chain or rope rode should be terminated by its "bitter end" inside the chain locker, so you cannot accedently run it all out. there are several ways. There maybe an eye screwed onto the back of the bow eye--that is the proper point to terminate. If there is no eye there and you cannot find one to fit the thread, then just a piece of 1 x 2 wood, about 12" long will work. Tie a piece of light line onto it and then secure this to the end of the rode. I like to make a tight eye splice in the bitter end to run the lighter line thru. I like to use several passes of 1/8" line, and this can be cut easily if you have to "cut and run". This would be most unusual for a C dory, but it would allow you to tie a fender to the end of the line.

Some people shackle the bitter end to the eye in the locker. But the piece of wood works fine.

3 strand rope is the normal, but you can get about 50 to 100% more line in the same area with the 8 plait. Be careful, there are many places which sell inferior Chinese chain and rope. Although it is cheaper to start, these cheaper ropes will harden, heckle, and not wear will. The cheaper chains will rust. For the 700 you want 1/4" G 4 Hi Test chain. The link size makes a difference for the windless chain gypsy or wheel.

You can easily paint marks on the chain--I use colored electrical ties at various points. It is good to have some very good mark just before the anchor is going to come over the bow roller.

Anchors: The genuine anchors --such as Danforth or Fortress are better than the knock offs. The "Danforth pattern, is just the angle of the flue (32*) with the shank. many of the knock offs are sheet metal, and work OK. The High Test Danforth and Fortress are far better. They have "T" shaped inner edges of the fluke and forged materials. Vs sheet metal bent on a brake. I think the very best anchor is one of the 3rd or 4th generations, such as Vulcan, Ronca, Manson Supreme. A good Danforth or Fortress is excellent for the Bay and Delta, most rivers with sand bottoms. I carry several anchors. Including two small Fortress for stern, one large Fortress for Bow and a Delta. The boat came with the Delta, or I would have bought a Ronca or Vulcan. Try the Danforth knock offs you have and see how they work on day trips. You want the good anchor when you are sleeping at night, and the wind pipes up to 50 knots!!

[journey on]

I hope that you'll read another post from me. But, anyway, here goes.

I finally found a post on splicing rode to chain: chain to rope tapered splice. Sea Wolf mentioned a way or splicing the rope to chain that weaves the rope through the chain instead of doubling it back. When I replaced the windlass on Journey On I found that doubling the rope back on itself gave a splice that would not go through the 700 smoothly. I then tried Sea Wolf's splice and it both held and went through the windlass smoothly. It has been used for 6-7 years now, so I'm sure it'll hold.

Here's the other splice method: Chain to rope 2.

Just thought I'd mention it, your choice. It's nice to pull up road without going to the bow.

Boris

[garyf]

[C-Val]

I had a Danforth anchor on and changed it over to a Manson
My Danforth pulled out and collapsed one night with the turning of the tide.
I couldn’t find my boat for awhile in the morning. Luckily no damage.
I since learned it is best as an anchor for one directional pull.
I still have it on-board but it is my spare or a day anchor

[Chester]

Just a thought. I had a Rocna but soon tired of the rollbar sticking up in my line of sight. I went to a 15# Manson Boss without the rollbar and am a happier camper for it.
The bail on the anchor roller was not big enough for the new anchor so I fabricated a new one from 1" x 1/8" aluminum stock from the hardware store with a hacksaw and a drill. EZ.

[thataway]

[garyf]

So I've got $1,600 sitting in my Defender cart at the moment... why the heck are counters so expensive? I'll pass on that for now... sounds like a good Arduino project for probably less than $100 (and fun to do).

I did reduce the chain to 60 ft... I think that will be plenty. 200 ft of Buccaneer Medallion 8 plait.

I'm going to run out to storage today and see what exactly I have for existing anchors before I close out the order.

Continued thanks to everyone!

[thataway]

On small boats chain counters are almost non-existant. Even most recreational larger vessels use some form of signal--plastic tabs, paint, yarn or electrical ties.

After awhile you know by the angle of the tight line at the bow, after the anchor is set and you back down against tt to be sure it will not drag, that you have about 7 to 1 scope ratio out. Don't forget to add in the 3' off the water of the bow and the amount of tide, if in tidal waters. Also first boat to anchor in an area sets precedent. If he is on one hook, the rest of the boats should also be on one hook, or in the C Dory you can get in shallow enough water to put out bow and stern, or bow and stern to the beach, a tree or rock. If to a tree, you should be using a strap to avoid damage to the tree.

It sounds as if you are off to a great start. Be sure and keep those extra lines which may already be on the boat for stern anchors.

One of my favorite places in the Dalt is "Locke Slough" just past Walnut Grove and the Trans Delta Canal. There you go bow to the bank of the old railroad, with a stern anchor out. This is on the Mokelumne River side, not the Sacramento River A side. I don't believe C Dory could not get thru the Trans Delta Canal, even if the sluice gates were open and water levels equal in the two river systems.

[garyf]

... and both anchors have "Danforth" on the shank, so I'm assuming they're actually Danforth brand instead of some knockoff?? I hope that's a reasonable assumption.

The larger one is a 12H, which upon looking it up confirms that it's a 12 pounder (and this one has Danforth (R) cast on the shank).

The smaller one is an s600... which looking up indicates that it's a 9 pounder. The "Danforth" on this one is stamped with no (R) that I can see (hard to read).

Both are in good condition.

So I'm thinking these are "good enough" for now and my anticipated uses? Mount the 12H on the bow and keep the s600 for a stern anchor? Is rope good enough for the stern, or should I really have some chain there too? I guess ideally I should have have some chain... but how important on a scale of 1-10? I already have a bucket full of rope (unknown length - but it's a lot) for the sea anchor / drogue he has... I'm thinking that can do double duty as rope for the stern if/when I use it.

[thataway]

The 12# is the High Tensile; the best of the Danforth Anchors. I owned one for over 40 years, and used it from the primary bow anchor on a 29 footer up to kedge boats as large as 62 feet, 65,000# off a cay in a beam wind of 40 knots! They hold if properly set--and you have no worry!

The other is one of the sheet metal with folded edge in the center, and still a good anchor-more a stern anchor. For the Delta that should suffice. I would probably pick up a Guardian (Fortress little sister ) or A Fortress in 7#. The only reason to add a Fortress is that it has the "mud" position, with the fluke angle increased to 45* as an option. This will hold better in poorly cohesive mud. If you want to go off shore (out to Farallon Islands, down to Half Moon Bay or to Bodega Bay) in the SF Bay Area, I would probably would add one of the generation 3 anchors--That would be better in rocks, or kelp on the bottom.

[journey on]

Several years ago I went through the Delta Cross Channel, which had a vertical clearance of 8 1/2 ft. Just to see if I could. Made it, but Judy wasn't happy. Journey On has the high radar arch and a $1300 radar on top of that. Had to lower the VHF antenna. So I know the height of Journey On is <8 1/2 ft above the waterline. We were going to the Meadows and were the only boat there. 30 years ago, it was packed; one guy had a helicopter pad on his boat.

If we're talking about the Sacramento Deepwater Canal, it's closed from the Sacramento River at the Sacramento end.

The Sea Wolf splice is a little different from the shovel hitch. Its for 3 strand line and has one of those strands brought around and woven through the rope. Giving one the rode. As I said, it's held through thick and thin for over 6 years, from the west side of Vancouver Island to the Sacramento River. If you're not comfortable with that splice, I would suggest that you take the chain and line to someone who does it for a living. The splice should be able to go through the windlass.

I'm not sure how one gets $1600 for windlass, chain, shackle and rope. $700 for the 700 windlass, $200 for the 1/4 ACCO chain and $200 for Buccaneer 1/2" 8 plait braid. If you have the anchors, and the 12H is what I have, that's only $1100. That's all I use to anchor.

Boris

[garyf]

Thanks so much, Bob... I really appreciate your wisdom and detailed answers.

Of course I appreciate everyone weighing in on the topic, too! I'm learning a lot here for sure.

One last question before I pull the trigger on the order - anchor lock or tensioner... ?

I see something like this: https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=934492

Something like this: https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=934473

And this: https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=934454

They all seem(?) to do the same thing... or at least something similar. Am I right in thinking one of the three would be useful? Seems like it from the descriptions - or is it better to just tie off the chain/rode to a cleat?

The descriptions of two of the above seem to focus on preventing an accidental release of the anchor and/or keeping the anchor snugged against the roller when the anchor is not deployed, but the third one (2nd in the list above, I think) talks about taking the strain off of the windlass when the anchor *is* deployed. It seems like all three could potentially cover both bases (as could tying off to the cleat(s).

So which is best? Are these just a convenience or actually good to have / necessary?

[hardee]

All good info so far. I have used several types of anchors. My favorite, early on was a Fortress, but it was never really stress tested. I had a Delta (plow) for several years, but it did drag once. It was replaced with a Rocna. Has held in much higher stress situations than either of the others, and has never moved an inch after a good hard catch set.

ON the 60 feet of chain. Work probably work, but for me, the math of a 73 feet is so much easier. Run it out to the end, in 10 feet of water I have a 7 to 1 scope. Depending on conditions (tide mostly), I often will have a 5:1 scope or momentarily a 4:1 for part of a tide cycle, but most often that is acceptable with the full length of chain, anchor to bow.

I guess I am just to lazy to want to do the extra hard math for figuring out where I can anchor with less than 70 feet.

For your depths in the Delta, You will be fine with 60 but your brain will hurt more than mine

Harvey
SleepyC