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robhwa



Joined: 04 Dec 2013
Posts: 272
City/Region: Anderson Island
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Marcia C
Photos: Problemadela
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C-Sharp wrote:
Peter & Judy wrote:
I'll add one more point. If you do add a kicker as a 'Get Me Home' motor, use it often. My boat came with the Honda 9.9 (Gretzky Jr.) and it was always a little hard to start and rough idling. The engine had very low hours because it hadn't been used much. Like all engines it likes to be used. After we used it more it began to run better and now runs great after the 12 hour run on Lake Powell when the 90 gave us troubles. I like to fire it up for an hour or so every time out. It is really quite nice to low speed cruise on when you in a nice quiet inlet and not in a hurry. Also the gas consumption is almost nil.


A really good point! Many of these outboards, especially the smaller singles are carbureted as apposed to fuel injected and are more susceptible to getting the jets gummed up when not used regularly.


...and since the two major causes of engine problems are lack of use and bad fuel, make sure and have an alternate fuel source for the kicker, or in my case, generator for my electric motors if you need longer range. It might even be wise to invest in a gallon or two of synthetic fuel before a long cruise, keeping the synthetic for emergencies. A gallon should get you 5 or 6 miles at hull speed, not a bad investment of $15/gallon. Personally, I can't see buying a 100 lb, $3500, 9.9 Honda, and hanging it on my transom, just for emergencies when I can bolt a $950, 10 lb electric to the main's antivent plate and get so much more everyday function. You will need to invest $400 or so in batteries, though, if you don't already have them. The boat I bought had the 9.9 Honda with electric start, tilt and trim, and remote throttle, but I never used it except to test it, and I am so glad I removed it.

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Rob Harrison & Marcia Ciol
Anderson Island, WA
2003 22 Cruiser "Mar-C"
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easy does it



Joined: 08 Sep 2017
Posts: 116
City/Region: Redmond
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Pura Vida
Photos: Easy Does It
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:32 pm    Post subject: post subject Reply with quote

2 years ago we bought Pura Vida a 2004 CD 22 with a 50 hp Honda and a 8 hp kicker which were original equipment and we bought it from the original owner. We let it sit for a year and bought a condo on Maui so decided to sell it. Then came covid so we stayed. Out to lake Powell and of course the main would not run so we used the kicker. Eventually I got the main going and have been having more fun then we ever imagined. On to Flaming Gorge, Jackson Lake, Yellowstone lake and now home. I am now playing by the rules and with the help of the C Brat Family have got the 50 hp Honda running smoothly. We are headed to Willow Beach to Hoover Dam, Lake Havasu City and Parker Az. Then on to lake Powell again in September. At this point I look at our boat as an entry level Nordic tug. (I know what you are saying, I can hear the profanity in the distance) but we are going every where you are and are spending more on ice than gas. I am really enjoying getting to know my Honda 50 and I just love the Honda 8, it is such an honest engine! Personally I would never have twin engines. When and if I decide to repower it will be a 90 Honda.
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nordicstallion



Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 380
City/Region: Crescent City
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
Vessel Name: Rylee Rose
Photos: Rylee Rose
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wholeheartedly agree with exercising motors at home. I try to run both at home at least every other week for 15 to 20 minutes. Everything mechanical starts degrading quickly when not in use.
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crowleykirk



Joined: 05 Jul 2019
Posts: 93
City/Region: Friday Harbor
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2020
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: C-Life
Photos: C-Life
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: Kicker Reply with quote

Swee Pea wrote:
My Nissan 6 hp kicker can be connected to my main Honda 90 with a rod that enables me to steer from the helm. Of course throttle must be controlled at the kicker motor.. Works.

John
Swee Pea


Love this idea John.. hadn't thought about that.

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Kirk Williams
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crowleykirk



Joined: 05 Jul 2019
Posts: 93
City/Region: Friday Harbor
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2020
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: C-Life
Photos: C-Life
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:29 am    Post subject: Interesting Rob.. like to hear more. Reply with quote

Sorry... user error.. I PM'd you Rob, like the idea of the electric as well.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
just for emergencies when I can bolt a $950, 10 lb electric to the main's antivent plate and get so much more everyday function. You will need to invest $400 or so in batteries, though, if you don't already have them


What trolling motor are you referring to? What sort of speed do you get? What range at 3 knots? What about cavitation under heavy weather conditions?

Are you referring to the Minn Kota RT80EM Saltwater Motor?

I have used the Torqeedo 1003, which is designed as a potential "kicker" for small sailboats up to 25 feet. I suspect it has considerably more thrust than an 80# thrust trolling motor--(I have experience with a number of bow mounted trolling motors on a variety of smaller boat, including a 110 # thrust motor on my 18' 2500# Caracal Cat which is very easily driven. I would take the Torqeedo over any trolling motor. It has a long shaft and would not come out of the water in rough seas. It has a large diameter prop, designed to push vessels which are heavier and it is very useful as our every day trolling motor. It can be shared with 12 volts.

I wonder how it compares with this 10# motor which you have??

_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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crowleykirk



Joined: 05 Jul 2019
Posts: 93
City/Region: Friday Harbor
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2020
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: C-Life
Photos: C-Life
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:47 pm    Post subject: Electric engine options.... Reply with quote

Hey Bob, I've looked at the Torqueedo as well. Looks like a good solution but the range give or take in hours at full speed is only an hour. We might take our Honda generator on board as well for hot water (wife) and could use that for battery top off but maybe that just plain 'ol defeats the purpose.

A 120 LB kicker and all the goodies to make it work seem like a lot of weight and hassle... but... that one time you need it:-)

Or if you fish I think it's non issue.

I've added a 9.9 to the quote but still not sold yet....

Thanks for the input.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hey Bob, I've looked at the Torqueedo as well. Looks like a good solution but the range give or take in hours at full speed is only an hour. We might take our Honda generator on board as well for hot water (wife) and could use that for battery top off but maybe that just plain 'ol defeats the purpose.


The Torpedo is the dinghy motor, but in the rivers it will usually get you to a ramp or a "safe place". Not a lot of range at full power. We carry a 2200 Watt Honda generator all of the time, so we could be charing the motor as we went in an emergency. If we are gong offshore, we also take our 3.5 HP 2 stroke Merc. Again a dinghy motor, but very long range, since we have a way of taking fuel out of the main 100 gallon tank, and added oil in 1 and 2 gallon cans to run the 2 stroke. Speed will be about 3 knots--in smooth water. Again, enough to get you some place safe--at a slow pace. Small motors will move big boats. We had a transmission failure on the big ketch we sailed to Europe and with a 4.5 hp on the hard dinghy we pushed the 49' LWL, 62; LOA, 66,000# boat at 2.5 knots until we got the 25 hp on the inflatable which had to be blown up and launched. That gave us 5 knots.
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crowleykirk



Joined: 05 Jul 2019
Posts: 93
City/Region: Friday Harbor
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2020
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: C-Life
Photos: C-Life
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:25 pm    Post subject: Hi Bob Reply with quote

That's pretty amazing the small outboard moved that sailboat. Right now we are quoting the 9.9 Suzuki. Leaning that direction. Hopefully our plans will include Alaska and more remote areas one day. I think the 9.9 would serve us well.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On our AK trip with the first 25, we had only the 2.5 hp Suzuki as a kicker--used at least 3 x a day as "dog ashore" motor on the dinghy. Again, trusting to modern outboard motors as extremely reliable. The Honda outboard is basically a car engine turned on its end. Different cooling, and thrust bearings, etc. Think same reliability. The most likely failure is fuel. Good sources and filters take care of that.
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robhwa



Joined: 04 Dec 2013
Posts: 272
City/Region: Anderson Island
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Marcia C
Photos: Problemadela
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
Quote:
just for emergencies when I can bolt a $950, 10 lb electric to the main's antivent plate and get so much more everyday function. You will need to invest $400 or so in batteries, though, if you don't already have them


What trolling motor are you referring to? What sort of speed do you get? What range at 3 knots? What about cavitation under heavy weather conditions?

Are you referring to the Minn Kota RT80EM Saltwater Motor?

I have used the Torqeedo 1003, which is designed as a potential "kicker" for small sailboats up to 25 feet. I suspect it has considerably more thrust than an 80# thrust trolling motor--(I have experience with a number of bow mounted trolling motors on a variety of smaller boat, including a 110 # thrust motor on my 18' 2500# Caracal Cat which is very easily driven. I would take the Torqeedo over any trolling motor. It has a long shaft and would not come out of the water in rough seas. It has a large diameter prop, designed to push vessels which are heavier and it is very useful as our every day trolling motor. It can be shared with 12 volts.

I wonder how it compares with this 10# motor which you have??


The 10 lb weight is the 80 lb thrust Minnkota that bolts on the main motor antivent plate. Pictures on my site. There is also a 160 lb thrust version which I wish I would have gotten. Thus you can steer just as with main. It does require 24 volts of batteries, but they are not hanging on transom as a gas motor is. Most people have batteries, but going much distance would require a lot or a generator and a 120 volt battery charger. I have another 80 lb Minnkota bow mount, a Terrova. Depending on load I can go 4 knots with one or nearly 5 with both on full thrust, but can't maintain it long on batteries alone. Thus the generator and charger. The main advantage over the kicker is flexibility, including an "anchor" mode that keeps the boat in the same place, and auto steering, from very low (0.5 knot) to higher trolling speeds. Instant on/off, no need to start. The bow mount also acts as a alternative to a bow thruster when in tight docking conditions, can push the bow left, right, and boat forward or backward. Great feature. I have a Torqueedo as well for my Hobie. Great motor, but no anchor mode or autosteer.
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crowleykirk



Joined: 05 Jul 2019
Posts: 93
City/Region: Friday Harbor
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2020
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: C-Life
Photos: C-Life
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:40 pm    Post subject: Someone has also suggested a 15hp instead of 9.9 Reply with quote

Not much price difference or weight difference, 23lbs. Anyone have a 15hp kicker on their 23? or 22? Just weighing options:-) Might be able to cruise with the 15,
I could see that as a positive. This was also mentioned.

I guess at this rate this will lead to the twin debate...hahahaha....
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robhwa



Joined: 04 Dec 2013
Posts: 272
City/Region: Anderson Island
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Marcia C
Photos: Problemadela
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Someone has also suggested a 15hp instead of 9.9 Reply with quote

crowleykirk wrote:
Not much price difference or weight difference, 23lbs. Anyone have a 15hp kicker on their 23? or 22? Just weighing options:-) Might be able to cruise with the 15,
I could see that as a positive. This was also mentioned.

I guess at this rate this will lead to the twin debate...hahahaha....


In past years, most, in current years, not so ure, but most 9.9 hp were 15's set up differently, different jets and different covers only. Why?...depending on regs, you could have a large-boat tender up to 9.9 hp and not have to register it, and some lakes would allow up to 9.9 hp but not more, so you could fish with your large boat using the 9.9.

Don't see many advantages to the 15 as a second motor unless you plan to sometimes use it for a smaller boat...a 15 will push a Livingston or a RIB like a banshee. You certainly can't plane a C-Dory with a 15, but you will get hull speed with a 9.9 or even less. However, if that 15 shows, and you don't have the boat it is pushing registered, the Coast Guard will certainly stop you and fine you. For the 9.9, it depends on state regs, I believe.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree that the 15 offers little beyond what a 9.9 or even a 8 hp 'high thrust" motor offers.

Most states require any motorized craft to be registered. Washington specifically states the following do not have to be registered: Note the Non-federal waters.

Quote:
Canoes, kayaks, or vessels that are not powered by motor or sail
Vessels that are less than 16 feet in length with a motor of 10 horsepower or less used on non-federal waters only
.

Washington is unique in this exception. I would not try running a non registered motorized vessel in any other state, with the excuse "it does not need to be registered in WA"...! Nothing to do with CG--it is state law.

My experience is that even if you a have a 9 hp kicker, and the boat has a larger motor on it--that boat will not be allowed into a lake with less than 10 hp restrictions.
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crowleykirk



Joined: 05 Jul 2019
Posts: 93
City/Region: Friday Harbor
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2020
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: C-Life
Photos: C-Life
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:10 pm    Post subject: Sorry.. I should of specified.... Reply with quote

Venture 23 San Juan Island and beyond cruising. Possible do some boater-homing as well.

I agree, I think the the use of an emergency kicker and maybe some future trolling the 9.9 would be perfect. I won't be using it on a dingy or other boat. The dingy will be a Sea Eagle:-)

Thanks for the input.
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