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Your Experiences - single with kicker | single w/o kicker
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crowleykirk



Joined: 05 Jul 2019
Posts: 34
City/Region: Mammoth Lakes
State or Province: CA
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:25 am    Post subject: Your Experiences - single with kicker | single w/o kicker Reply with quote

Just wondering experiences with each. Not another (twin) debate just curious what some thoughts are.

Some folks Ok with just single and I totally understand, some love the reduntancy of the kicker. Wondering if anyone has used their kicker in an emergency.

Pluses and minuses of each and what horsepower and make are folks liking or disliking.

I'm specifically asking in the case of a 23 Venture but this would apply to all singles. And no... I don't want twins. Maybe we keep twins out of this discussion if at all possible? Smile

Thank you,
Kirk

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nordicstallion



Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 374
City/Region: Crescent City
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
Vessel Name: Rylee Rose
Photos: Rylee Rose
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a single. Being a flatlander before moving to the north coast, I’ve always had concerns about problems offshore. We added a 9.9 hi-thrust Yamaha kicker. Due to the leaky nature of the original lazzerette hatch covers(since replaced), the batteries & wiring were always wet Causing an electrical problem with the main. Thanked my lucky stars when 10 miles south of the harbor, in heavy fog and nobody around, the main wouldn’t start! Horrors!! I now call it a get home motor! My main trolls slow enough so I never use 9.9 for trolling. It was well worth the investment. There’s a lot to be said for a get home motor!!
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nordicstallion



Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 374
City/Region: Crescent City
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
Vessel Name: Rylee Rose
Photos: Rylee Rose
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a single. Being a flatlander before moving to the north coast, I’ve always had concerns about problems offshore. We added a 9.9 hi-thrust Yamaha kicker. Due to the leaky nature of the original lazzerette hatch covers(since replaced), the batteries & wiring were always wet Causing an electrical problem with the main. Thanked my lucky stars when 10 miles south of the harbor, in heavy fog and nobody around, the main wouldn’t start! Horrors!! I now call it a get home motor! My main trolls slow enough so I never use 9.9 for trolling. It was well worth the investment. There’s a lot to be said for a get home motor!!
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 18038
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have owned single outboard boats since 1957. I have had provisions for kickers on many--but only used a kicker once on an inboard. I did have to push a 62' foot ketch around with an inflatable and a 25 hp outboard..when the transmission failed. The failure rate of modern outboards is extremely low. Usually the problem is fuel. Catastrophic failure can occur. But 80% + problems can be fixed by the owner with a good set of tools and a few spare parts. The one engine problem I had, the engine went into limp home mode and would push the boat at 7 knots. I also. had an electric shift in the lower unit fail, in forward gear. I have no idea of how many thousands of hours I have on outboards.

At this point I use either the Torqeedo electric dinghy motor to push the boat to a safe place, or a 3.5 hp Merc 2 stroke. If I am going into remote areas, I take the Merc and 2 cycle oil. I have a method of getting fuel out of the main tank if necessary and mixing it in one or two gallon containers. The speed will be low, but it would get me to safety. I have used this on voyages to AK, BC, and Channel Islands.

Just my experience and opinion--yours may vary.

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 10938
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I will try to behave myself, Rolling Eyes
Quote:
".... I don't want twins. Maybe we keep twins out of this discussion if at all possible? Smile


For a fine example of single engine only use, look no further than the general aviation industry. Thousands of single engine "vessels" in use daily, no kickers and no (or honestly extremely rarely) is there an engine failure. And, when there is it is traced to one of two things, maintenance, (skips or short cuts, either in parts or service) or fuel. Their "get home engine" is gravity.

For many boats, the get home may be on the other side of the lake from where you want to be, but is not life endangering. IF you maintain your OB like your life depends on it, and IF you zero out the risk factor, then maybe a single will work for you. For some of us, we wear suspenders Shocked and add the belt to make us feel better. Wink

Harvey
SleepyC Moon


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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 2172
City/Region: Leesburg
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a kicker, but then I don't boat in the boonies. If I did, I might reconsider.

If I have an issue and might be in peril, I can drop anchor and then sort it out. This happened only one time, I ran one tank dry and after switching it took a bit to get the engine started again. At the time I was in a river and the current was pushing me towards a rock jetty. I got the anchor out in less time that it probably would've taken to get a kicker down and operating, especially if it hadn't been used for awhile.

As mentioned, current outboard motors are very reliable. If it is maintained well it should not have any problems. As also mentioned, some motors have limp mode which allows the engine to run at reduced power if necessary due to a malfunction. My Honda limits the RPM to 2K when limping.

IMO, that leaves two common routes to failure. One is hitting something with the lower unit that renders it unusable. Not much you can do about that except not hit things. If you have a kicker you'd likely travel with it in the up position so something that takes out the main lower unit will miss the kicker lower unit.

The other is the fuel supply. Most likely this it bad fuel, but could be hoses failing. If you run the kicker off the main supply any problems that the main has with running will also likely occur with the kicker. You can maintain a separate fuel supply for the kicker. To prevent contaminated fuel from taking out the kicker and the main, you would need to be diligent on sourcing the fuel for the kicker from a different place than the fuel for the main engine. It should be obvious that any limp modes will not help if the problem with running the engine is fuel.
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NewMoon



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 391
City/Region: Holladay
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 1991
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Cindy Sea
Photos: Cindy Sea
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our kickers have saved our C-Dory twice and our 26-foot cruiser once from disaster on rocky lee shores, when kelp had blocked the water intakes and caused the main to overheat. Another time when we spun a prop crossing Taku Inlet near Juneau in windy conditions. And twice brought us back from 10-12 miles out after engine or sterndrive problems, once from part way up into Glacier Bay. And two other times when we had equipment problems in a crowded harbor, with other boats only yards away.

We could possibly have been saved by a tow in only two or three of these situations. In the others, we were so remote that no tow service was available, and few other boaters either. Or we were so close to the rocks or boats that there was not enough time for a tow, or a kind fellow boater, to get to us. Or both.

Love my kicker! And it's great for salmon trolling too.

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Richard Cook
Dream Catcher (Nordic Tug 37)
New Moon (Bounty 257, 1998 to 2018)
Cindy Sea (CD 22 Cruiser, from 1991 to 1998)
"Cruising in a Big Way"


Last edited by NewMoon on Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TyBoo



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 5108
City/Region: Warrenton
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruise Ship
Vessel Name: TyBoo
Photos: TyBoo
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have used a kicker out of necessity twice in twenty years. Once to get the last six miles to Friday Harbor when the water pump failed on the old Honda. The second time was when the steering cable broke on the way across the Columbia River bar. It was a clam day so we turned around and went the thirteen miles back to Warrenton with the kicker. Those were both with my current CD25 that had a 15 hp Honda for a kicker.

A couple years later I was a day late tipping the motors down into the water and it froze hard enough to bust the 15 hp Honda. I went without a kicker for a couple years until the big Honda 130 started acting up while we were out crabbing close to Clatsop Spit. I was able to keep the motor going long enough to get us home but decided that I would not be without a backup out there again.

I bought a Suzuki 9.9 along with a Suzuki 200 for the repower and have been very pleased with them.

To answer your question about size, I think you will find that 9.9 hp is enough to move the boat at displacement speed so you don't need anything more unless you hope to get on plane. That would take one of the twins we aren't talking about. When I bought the new kicker I was all set to spring for a 15 or 20 hp until the salesman (Sportcraft, in Oregon City) told me I would be wasting money and adding weight for nothing to go bigger than 9.9 even on my heavy CD25. The Suzuki 9.9 I bought has EFI, electric start and and power tilt. The EFI will work without a battery but I like the start and tilt so I have a small battery dedicated to it.

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TyBoo Mike
1996 25' Cruise Ship
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crowleykirk



Joined: 05 Jul 2019
Posts: 34
City/Region: Mammoth Lakes
State or Province: CA
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:43 pm    Post subject: All great responses Reply with quote

Just what i was hoping for. Spec'ing a new 23 right now and this is in discussion.

I'm leaning 9.9 Suzuki kicker. Looks like it weighs in at 120 lbs. That's considerable but I'd go with a 140 Suzuki main so the weight should be fine.

I've been out on many single diesel nd twins... twin diesel on single is very hard to handle.

I agree these engines are so good these days and I'm a super anal guy when it comes to that. Former diesel tech on large yachts and some small ones:-)

I like the idea of not having one as well just for all the simplicity. For now our main goal is to cruise the San Juans, we are part time San Juan Island and into Canada when that re-opens. Trying to get an order in with a few weeks here to make ready for next May.

That darn fence... I'm still on it:-)
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robhwa



Joined: 04 Dec 2013
Posts: 102
City/Region: Anderson Island
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: “ Problemadela
Photos: Problemadela
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting back from a trip out into the ocean or fighting big tides, currents and winds is one thing, but if you don't expect these and don't want to spend a few thousand on a kicker that you will likely never use, you might consider a bow mount or anti-vent plate electric "kicker", or both in my case. I use mine nearly every outing and almost always at docking in tight places.

At full thrust both together will push about 4.5 knots.

The "anchor" mode where the electric will keep me in one place is particularly useful if you don't want to put out a real anchor, maybe eat lunch, fish a bit, or pull a pot when windy or tidey. Trolling at 0.5-4.5 knots is another. With my Honda generator the range is indefinite, at least until you run out of gas. The front-mount will turn into wind, and is more useful then a front thruster, IMHO.

The only down side I've found is with large waves, the front mount motor will come out of the water occasionally, but other than noise, this hasn't really caused any problems that I can see.

Here was the thread...I think there are others, and there are pictures of them on my site if you want to take a look.

The 2003 Honda 9.9 with trim, tilt if available if you want to make an offer. Seems to run fine, I just never use it.

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=11644

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Rob Harrison & Marcia Ciol
Anderson Island, WA
2003 22 Cruiser "Problemadela"
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srbaum



Joined: 30 Aug 2010
Posts: 583
City/Region: Portsmouth
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Havey makes a good case and that is one that I have always followed. I do not fill both of my fuel tanks at the same time, in case I end up with bad gas from the last fill-up.
After owning 65 + boats and towing more than 800, when in the CG, I still make darn sure, that my outboard gets the best maintenance and that I do my self to ensure it gets done correctly. I have owned one boat with twins and never had to limp home on one engine and owned a big center console with a 25 HP kicker. The 25 NEVER got used excepted when I started it for maintenance. What I absolutely dreaded about that 25 was that being offset from the centerline, always took a very good salt water bath at sea. I found that the 25 was more maintenance because of always getting this bath. I eventually took the 25 off, as well as the bracket and never looked back.
For my new (to me) 26, I purchased a 9.9 Honda and a bracket, but looking back at my big center console, I do not think that I will mount it and soon will sell it, as I am tired of it taking up space, I have over 350 hour on my new boat in less than 1.5 years and I still stick to very tight standards for maintenance. I do carry critical spare parts just in case I need to drop my 200' of chain and 150' of 3 strand to fix my problems.

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Steve Baum
Homeport of Portsmouth, VA
OSPREY (Ex Mister Sea) 2000 22 C-Dory 2010 - Sold 3/19
OSPREY (Ex ADITI) 2007 26 Cape Cruiser 2018
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srbaum



Joined: 30 Aug 2010
Posts: 583
City/Region: Portsmouth
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a follow-up to my last note, almost all of the boats that I towed had mechanical issues due to little or no maintenance and also not enough fuel for their voyage, or bad fuel, because they only used their boat a few times a year...
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crowleykirk



Joined: 05 Jul 2019
Posts: 34
City/Region: Mammoth Lakes
State or Province: CA
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:36 pm    Post subject: All great replys... thank you. Reply with quote

Marty at Master Marine was on the fence as well. Really like him, really talked me through all the options and did not try to sell me on anything I didn't need. I like that in a salesmen.

But he did suggest a 6hp Suzuki instead of the 9.9 if we wanted a kicker. It is enough in his opinion and has a separate fuel tank. i suppose a kicker could always be added later. I won't have a dingy so that's not an option. We'll be going kayak style ala...C-Sharp:-)
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Swee Pea



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 376
City/Region: Spotsylvania
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Swee Pea
Photos: Swee Pea
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:51 pm    Post subject: Single With Kicker Reply with quote

Couldn’t get my single Honda 90 started at my dock and had to get it to the boat ramp about a mile away. Used my 6 hp Nissan kicker to get me there. I was surprised how well the setup worked. Also use the kicker on my Zodiac Wave. Just changed the prop on the kicker for the CDory (22’).

John
Swee Pea
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WeekiTiki



Joined: 12 Jun 2019
Posts: 358
City/Region: Weeki Wachee
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Just Cruisin'
Photos: WeekiTiki
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was this one time in 1976

When I used my kicker to get back in

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