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Two kinds of boaters: liars and those who've run aground
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Beachnut



Joined: 25 Apr 2018
Posts: 11
City/Region: Port Townsend
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Blue Heron
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:08 pm    Post subject: Two kinds of boaters: liars and those who've run aground Reply with quote

I'm a new skipper (2 years), but have been boating as crew for decades. Last week, I had a slow, soft sandbar grounding on my 22. I can blame the channel marker that was missing all its red paint, or I can admit not carefully watching my Garmin or the color of the water in a minus tide. In a known hazard area. Duh. My daughter pushed us off in seconds.

So I subsequently discovered my twin Honda 40s both have issues, but different on starboard and port. Port prop was probably spun and has already been replaced this week. The other new prop for starboard will be here in a couple days and I really hope the starboard engine will be fine after replacing the prop.

Here are the symptoms: both engines start and run fine, got thoroughly rinsed with freshwater after grounding. Starboard revs but only delivers about half the normal thrust and tops out on speed at only about 5 knots. I'm pretty sure that's just a spun prop; will replace it and test this week.

It's my port engine I'm worried about. I did replace that prop already and the problem persists; it starts and revs just fine but the new prop does not spin at all in drive. I did just have spring maintenance done and had a tech swap out my Garmin and transducer. Is there any way the cabling could have come loose coincidentally? Am I looking at a damaged lower unit? What could a slow soft grounding in sand have done to the workings of the lower unit? Maybe my dog gear was about to go anyway. I do know that during maintenance they didn't change the port impeller because the shop said the bolts were seized; so, I have to deal with those bolts anyway. How can I eliminate any other factors before I take apart the lower unit or pay boucoups bucks to have a shop do it? Is there a method to test the shift cabling while on the trailer?

Doctors of Outboards, what's your diagnosis for this port engine not having any thrust?
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 18038
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very unlikely that the tech putting in a transducer damaged the shifter cable or connection.

Does the boat run in reverse? Is there any unusual sound?

With engine turned off, put the engine in drive, and see if you can turn the prop. Put the engine in reverse and see if you can turn the prop. You can also feel it if there is gear damage. It could be the gears in the lower unit, it could be the shifter, it could be the drive shaft.

Unfortunately Honda's are notorious for corrosion and seizing of the bolts on the lower units. Penetrating oil, and heat are going to be the way to get the bolts loose. Be sure that a never seize is used when the bolts are put back in the lower unit--and water pump is checked/changed every 2 years. You are going to check out the pump after this "soft grounding"...I understand you hit a sand bar, but there was some damage done, if the hubs were spun. How fast were you going?

Yes, I have run aground a number of times and done damage; Just not unintentionally in a C Dory--fortunately.

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
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Home port: Pensacola FL
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Beachnut



Joined: 25 Apr 2018
Posts: 11
City/Region: Port Townsend
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Blue Heron
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't test reverse after realizing I had lost that port drive. So, I put them both in forward and reverse just now, on the trailer, with engines off. The port doesn't turn more than a few degrees, the starboard is quite loose. I've never tested that; should they turn by hand if all is well?

I was going really slow, creeping along at just a few knots, because I expected to see the next channel marker, having been in that estuary many times, and it's notorious. The dredged channel is just a few yards wide.

I ordered a shop manual. I'm a newbie at repairs but have a decebt shop and a mechanically inclined advisor friend. Is it best, given that, to just haul over to the Honda shop in town and pay for expertise? Are lower units difficult to repair?

Thanks very much for your guidance!
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tsturm



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 964
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beachnut wrote:
I didn't test reverse after realizing I had lost that port drive. So, I put them both in forward and reverse just now, on the trailer, with engines off. The port doesn't turn more than a few degrees, the starboard is quite loose. I've never tested that; should they turn by hand if all is well?

I was going really slow, creeping along at just a few knots, because I expected to see the next channel marker, having been in that estuary many times, and it's notorious. The dredged channel is just a few yards wide.

I ordered a shop manual. I'm a newbie at repairs but have a decebt shop and a mechanically inclined advisor friend. Is it best, given that, to just haul over to the Honda shop in town and pay for expertise? Are lower units difficult to repair?

Thanks very much for your guidance!



No Should not turn in gear!
I would remove the lower unit in question & make sure the splined end of the drive shaft (where it mates with the crankshaft) is still in one piece Thumbs Up There is a pict in my album of a Yamaha broken drive shaft, I haven't been able to figure out posting picts since I was forced to change browsers.
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 10938
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beachnut, Curious, was that in the channel into Mystery Bay? That trip in Kilsuit gets several boats per year. Fun going in, but as you know, doing it carefully works best. I do several trips a year into there.

Harvey
SleepyCMoon


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Beachnut



Joined: 25 Apr 2018
Posts: 11
City/Region: Port Townsend
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Blue Heron
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, Harvey, the R "8" channel marker by the false entrance has all the south side red paint stripped off and it can't be easily seen at a distance. I made the mistake of thinking I could head from R "6" by Rat Island to G "9" by the park beach and be safe. There's a rip there like river rapids! My daughter jumped into 18 inches of water and the current almost knocked her over.

In the years of cruising with a full keel sailboat, I never would have been there in the first place!

Hope all is well in Sequim Bay. Summer seems to have arrived this week, so we can put our warm jackets aside for a few hours a day!
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 18038
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a photo of Tsturm's broken drive shaft:



If it turns in both forward and reverse, there is a problem with the gears, drive shaft or hub. You have a new hub, you should be able to feel some resistance from the gears if they are turning.

The first thing will be to check the shifter, then pull the lower unit--finally tear down the gear case. You are going from cheaper to more expensive repairs.
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 10938
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"...from R "6" by Rat Island to G "9" by the park beach and be safe. There's a rip there like river rapids!"


Yes there is. I have gone through the Rat Island cut a few times, (High tide and after watching a crabber or two). On the tide change it is pretty stout current.

Don't want to hijack your thread so . . . .

Hope your fix is less than a boat unit.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

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tsturm



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 964
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Bob Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
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Beachnut



Joined: 25 Apr 2018
Posts: 11
City/Region: Port Townsend
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Blue Heron
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's very helpful. The photo is scary, like those xrays of your arm you don't really want to see!

Is changing out the dog gear difficult? My shop manual should arrive in a week or so...
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tsturm



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 964
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beachnut wrote:
That's very helpful. The photo is scary, like those xrays of your arm you don't really want to see!

Is changing out the dog gear difficult? My shop manual should arrive in a week or so...


No worse than the driveshaft Thumbs Up Laughing
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Beachnut



Joined: 25 Apr 2018
Posts: 11
City/Region: Port Townsend
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Blue Heron
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The SELOC shop manual just arrived! This is going to be a game-changer for me since I need to become self-reliant in so many ways. It's written and illustrated clearly for the do-it-yourselfer. This weekend I'll follow some of the troubleshooting steps they lay out, and hopefully find easily fixed issues that I can handle. Hey, maybe even change out the impeller! Fingers crossed! Thanks, everyone for your guidance.
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tsturm



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 964
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did it turn out? Thumbs Up
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Foggy



Joined: 01 Aug 2013
Posts: 1235
City/Region: Traverse City; Northern Lake Michigan
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C-Dory Year: 2014
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Photos: W B Nod
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like a case of PD caused broken lower shaft drive to me.

Get yours checked today.

Aye.
My bad. My lie.

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Beachnut



Joined: 25 Apr 2018
Posts: 11
City/Region: Port Townsend
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Blue Heron
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stay tuned! Ended up having to work this weekend. As in; the kind of activity that doesn't involve boats and water, but fattens rather than slims the wallet. How parts get paid for!
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