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Venture 23 Repower

 
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spd



Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 10
City/Region: Mukilteo
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Photos: spd
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:49 pm    Post subject: Venture 23 Repower Reply with quote

Hi everyone Ė Iím looking for some advice on a repower. We currently have a Yamaha F115 with about 700 hours, which is running just fine. However, Iím interested in a repower mainly to get:

(1) additional power
(2) better fuel economy
(3) better charging
(4) confidence of a warranty

Iíd also like to do this while the Yamaha still has some trade-in value. We run the boat pretty heavy, usually on 1-2 week cruises with two adults, two kids, a catÖ Weíve spent the last few summers in Desolation Sound and when the world opens back up we would like to push into the Broughtons and through parts of the inside passage.

Iím trying to compare our options. Iím leaning towards the Honda if for nothing else than my bias towards the brandóalthough it seems to be the oldest design of the bunch, but Iím not sure how relevant that is. We have Teleflex dual station controls that I hope to reuse.

Mercury 150, 60 Amp, 455 lbs, 3.0L, 1.92:1, 3 years
Honda 135, 40 Amp, 478 lbs, 2.36L, 2.14:1, 6 years (5+1)
Honda 150, 40 Amp, 478 lbs, 2.36L, 2.14:1, 6 years (5+1)
Suzuki 140, 40 Amp, 394 lbs, 2.04L, 2.59:1, 6 years (3+3)
Suzuki 150, 44 Amp, 511 lbs, 2.87L, 2.50:1, 6 years (3+3)
Yamaha 150, 35 Amp, 478 lbs, 2.7L, 2.00:1, 3 years

I understand they are all reliable motors and there is a lot of brand loyalty at play, but Iíd like to know thoughts about displacement, gear ratio, charging, etc. that I should consider. Any thoughts are much appreciated! Thanks, all.
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DayBreak



Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 278
City/Region: Monmouth, Or.
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 2018
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: DayBreak
Photos: DayBreak
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably the number one thing to consider is where do you plan on taking your outboard for service.
All of the motors you have listed are great reliable motors. Having a dealer close to where you live is a plus. My vote is for the Suzuki 140 because of weight, gear ratio and a 40 amp. alternator.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 17959
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Suzuki 140 (I own one currently on the Caracal Cat) is the 115 HP block--and it is a week 140....You will not get much different performance than the Yamaha. The advantage is the gearing, so you might get a little better top end speed.

I have owned a Yamaha 115, and they are great engines--Unfortunately 400 hours or 700 hours you will not get a lot of trade. in--may be better to sell outright while still on the boat--so folks can see it run.

I doubt that you will get much better fuel economy.

What speed and at what RPM are you cruising currently?

How many hours a year do you put on the motor?

Without knowing that, I would vote for the heavier Suzuki 150 because it is the largest block (both it and the Yamaha get 200 hp out of that block.). I have owned a couple of Suzuki 150's and they were great engines. (Oops, I missed that the Merc has a 3.0 L block--some have had great luck with Mercs--and it probably will be the fastest of the bunch--vs the 'Suzuki because of the gearing).

The amps can be a little misleading--you have to subtract the amount needed to run the motor, so it is really net available amps for charing house battery that you want to know. You probably will not notice much more charging ability with a 40 amp alternator over the 35 amp which the Yamaha probably has.

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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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spd



Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 10
City/Region: Mukilteo
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Photos: spd
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luckily, we are relatively close to decent service providers for all those brands.

We typically run at about 4,200 RPM, which gets us about 12-14 knots through the water depending on how we are loaded. Last weekend we were out with no water, no extended cruising supplies (i.e., backpacks full of toys), and about ľ fuel and were getting 18 knots through the water at 4,200.

Weíve put about 100 hours each year on the motor the past two years, and less the first two we owned her.

It looks like charging, weight, and displacement favor the mercuryóbut why are the Mercury and Suzuki 150 gear ratios are on the opposite end of the spectrum for a similar displacement? Iím not looking for top end speed, so would that favor the Suzukiís torque? Is a 56 lb. weight difference really going to matter that much (thatís my weight difference between Thanksgiving and New Year).

Thank you for the input!
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srbaum



Joined: 30 Aug 2010
Posts: 565
City/Region: Portsmouth
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Osprey
Photos: Osprey
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SPD,
Tohatsu also has a 4 stroke, using the Honda engine... If you take a hard look at it, it really is a rebadged Honda.

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Steve Baum
Homeport of Portsmouth, VA
OSPREY (Ex Mister Sea) 2000 22 C-Dory 2010 - Sold 3/19
OSPREY (Ex ADITI) 2007 26 Cape Cruiser 2018
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spd



Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 10
City/Region: Mukilteo
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Photos: spd
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Steve. I considered the Tohatsu 150 because I thought I would essentially get a black Honda 150 and save over paying for the name brand, but the quote I received from my local Tohatsu dealer priced it out at $1,500 more than the Honda.... So I stopped considering it at that point.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 17959
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We typically run at about 4,200 RPM, which gets us about 12-14 knots through the water depending on how we are loaded. Last weekend we were out with no water, no extended cruising supplies (i.e., backpacks full of toys), and about ľ fuel and were getting 18 knots through the water at 4,200.

Weíve put about 100 hours each year on the motor the past two years, and less the first two we owned her.

It looks like charging, weight, and displacement favor the mercuryóbut why are the Mercury and Suzuki 150 gear ratios are on the opposite end of the spectrum for a similar displacement? Iím not looking for top end speed, so would that favor the Suzukiís torque? Is a 56 lb. weight difference really going to matter that much (thatís my weight difference between Thanksgiving and New Year).


You are basically loafing the engine. It will probably last many years @95% confidence level. The speeds are low for the boat..and may not be the most economical. As you increase displacement, you will put even less strain on the motor.
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spd



Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 10
City/Region: Mukilteo
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Photos: spd
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the risk of revealing my ignorance -- what does "loafing" the engine mean? I always felt that 4,200 RPM was where the engine sounded the best and from what I understood is a good continuous RPM.
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DayBreak



Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 278
City/Region: Monmouth, Or.
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 2018
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: DayBreak
Photos: DayBreak
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We actually own a 23 Venture. The 23 Venture/Cape Cruiser is rated to a maximum of 150 hp.. I can only speak for what I have on the transom of our boat. The Suzuki 140 is way more power than we need with a heavy load and for up to two weeks of travel. We get unbelievable fuel economy as tested on 200 miles fuel-ups. Please feel free to PM me for these numbers. What I like about the Suzuki 140 is the savings of about 100 lbs. on the transom when compared to a 150 hp. motor with larger displacement. The gear ratio on the 140 makes it possible to swing a larger prop. The power feels plenty for our needs and with good maintenance, we hope to have many years of service with the Suzuki 140.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 17959
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spd wrote:
At the risk of revealing my ignorance -- what does "loafing" the engine mean? I always felt that 4,200 RPM was where the engine sounded the best and from what I understood is a good continuous RPM.


You are correct that is a "sweet spot" for the engine. Because of that you will get years of service. There are people who run them at 4800 or 5200 for hours on ends and still get well over 1000 hours-in commercial service, often as much as 4,000 hours.

You are not straining the engine is what I mean by "loafing". Sort of an old school term. Lets say that an engine is rated HP at 5500 RPM. The 4200 is probably less than 3/4 of rated hp. You can determine how much HP is being used by fuel burn. A gas engine produces approximately 14 hp per gallon an hour. Diesel about 20 hp per gallon an hour. Another formula is: Given Horsepower x .50 lb fuel/hp = lbs of fuel for given horsepower.

Here are some numbers that apply to your situation at Wide Open Throttle:
Yamaha 115 HP 4 stroke 9.70 GPH
Yamaha 150 HP 4 stroke 15.5 GPH
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 10868
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spd, you said you spend much of your time north of the border. You may want to check on service for your proposed engine in Canada -- ah, just in case. It used to be, and may still be, that Canadian OB services for US warranties is still different up there than down here. For instance, Honda, Canada did not service US Honda, or recognize a US Honda warranty. That is one of the reasons you see so many Yamaha OB;s north of the line.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon


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jennykatz



Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 1624
City/Region: naples
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Little Treasurer
Photos: Jennykatz
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:16 am    Post subject: cc23 venture Reply with quote

we have a 2006 cape cruiser venture it came with a 115 Yamaha engine I got over 4mpg and top speed was about 33-34 mph at 5500 rpm . We then upgraded to a Mercury 115CT which is a 2.1 Litre with a Mercury 150 lower unit which throws a 15 by 17 pitch prop for us At 4000 rpm 20-21 mph on smooth seas .At 5500rpm we get 33-34 mph same as Yamaha .What I really enjoy with the bigger prop is much better take off and better around the dock maneuverability. I didn't need a 150 hp because after 30mph boat can get squirrely. So save some $$ and get the 115CT and get same performance up to 30 mph .
BTW I got $3500 for my yamaha 115 but that was 4 years ago and Mercury had a 5 year warranty at that time for a little $ Jim

_________________
retired 8/08 from UAL, still working pt tm
Duck c-22 cruiser sold 6/23/08
06 Venture Cruiser with merc115CT
00 cd16 cruiser honda 40 sold 3/12
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Baxter



Joined: 04 Jul 2015
Posts: 35
City/Region: Sheridan
State or Province: WY
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Baxter ll
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:11 pm    Post subject: Venture 23 Re-power Reply with quote

My 2 cents.

I have a 2006 23 venture cape cruiser/c-dory with 2007 dual 50 hps on stern.
Honda carb. Wish they were injected but bought boat used and we are satisfied with it. 4 blade props. Max speed is 21 on calm. Changing props could increase speed. But, we cruise at 15-17 mph and enjoy that as we are there for scenery and relaxing. Find where we cruise wave conditions seldom even allow full throttle operation.

Side point last year at Corpus Christi I asked why sport fishermen have 4-5 Ea. 350 Hp on stern. Answer was fish were 100 miles Off shore wanted to zoom out in am catch their fish and be home to cook for supper. Did not ask mpg.


We do Canadian waters and have gone through the high volume tidal flows and never not had enough power or used full power. For example Campbell River.

When it comes to fuel consumption I always answer please tell me wave conditions, current direction, wind speed (we have Zodiac on top. Two antennas, radar.) travel pretty heavy, never can have to much stuff. With carb engines factor in air temp and humidity. Burn only alcohol free fuel unless desperate. Range av. 4-5 mpg. Just make sure have enough for next fuel stop. Care 60 gals plus 6 gal. Reserved that duplicates as fore Honda 2000 Gen supply. On trip I am there to enjoy.
I donít look at fuel price as usually only place to get it and do I have enough for next stop with a reserve.

I like the dual engines. On one occasion took lower unit on one out on
Log so engine two got us 50 miles home. However, you can hit a reef and take out both engines and be in trouble. I carry two extra props.

They Have 750 hours on them and as many Honda engines get 3000 hrs I find hard reason to Justify change. But, if I did would still like the duals, perhaps 70ís Honda.

We charge 3 batteryís off them as extra from running C-paks as have sleep ap. No issues.

I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT IS WHERE IS GOOD SERVICE!
For the brand you want. GoDo service is almost non-exsistent as engines more complex than mechanics ability. Same with autos.

I am do not like that Mercury as they seem to have lots of labor problems. And stern drive I had lower unit as junk. Toured their plant in Fond du Lac, WI in 1967, probably have upgraded. Evinrude of course discontinued recently. Just could not market right though engine good concept and lighter wt. No dealer network to speak of.

That is what counts if YOUR HAPPY with your choice who cares what others think.

Yamaha, Honda, Susuki seem to be leaders. I like Honda as have had motorcycles, generator, 35 years of same lawn mower, car and never went wrong with any of them.

Hope safe to go to Friday Harbor September sure missed the annual in May.

Baxter II

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Catman



Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 1424
City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2017
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: Songbird (Bambina, 16')
Photos: Bambina
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I'll second Baxter's motion for Hondas. My '17 150 HP has 530 flawless hours of loyal performance. A really fine machine, matched with the 23' Venture, it routinely yields 4+ statute MPG and scoots to 39 MPH at top end. Plenty of power, and a jack rabbit hole shot. I expect to get at least 2,000 hours out of it. Jeez, at this rate that's only nine years. Anyway, you can't go wrong with any of the motors suggested, but my write-in candidate in this critical election is the Honda 150.
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