Update to core rot and removal.

[Jackie]

I'm hoping to finish my sanding/grinding of the humps and lumps today and get everything ready for replacing the v-berth bunk and seats tomorrow. Starting to replace anyway. Nothing goes fast on this job. But I have a question for you, Bob: how do I form the 'pillars' to hold up the bunk? Should I wrap fg around a dowel and tab it in? Or do I actually just roll the wetted cloth into a tube? That doesn't seem right. Is there a third option I'm missing?

I've decided not to screw the seats in but that raises a question about resins. I plan to use epoxy when tabbing in the bunk. It won't be touching any of the area that I just did on the floor, I had the epoxy already and it won't stink to high heaven or be quite so temperature dependent and will make a better bond. But, tabbing in the seats I WILL be contacting the floor. I have about a quart of the vinyl ester left as well as some of the waxed polyester for the finishing coat. Would it be better to stick with that or can I use the epoxy? Where I cut the seat away is clean so I know the epoxy would be fine there, but will it adhere well to the new floor? I know there can be an issue with secondary bonding between polyester and epoxy.
Thanks for any advice!

[thataway]

Hi Jackie.

First I prefer epoxy, but for the tabbing any resin will work. You just won't have the primary chemical bond you have with the full laminate.

In any place where you are going to attach new "elements" with glass and some resin, the surface must be clean of wax, amine blush (epoxy) or any other contaminates. The epoxy forms the best secondary bond, Vinyl Ester next, and then the polyester.

Good question about the bracket for the V berth area. You probably don't have any sections of flat glass material, or a composition. I probably would buy a "Closet rod" dowel--these are anywhere from our 7/8" to 1.25" in diameter. You can cut to fit the length you need, and put them in place with epoxy to start. That will set up and allow you to then wrap them with cloth and any resin you wish. I would make a "skirt" of mat around the bottom-that is, to take a piece of mat which will go around the diameter of the dowel with just a little over lap. Half of that cut 4 equally divided slits in the bottom of the "skirt". That will be spread out over the floor and the top under the fiberglass shelf. I would then put a second one one, which will cover the areas where it was "splayed out" with the first. The mat will work well into that pattern. You can then cover the rest of the dowel with glass, or even leave it painted.

Sounds like you are at the end of the project. Congratulations!

[Takenotes]

[Takenotes]

[Jackie]

Clearly I might not be the best person to ask! I think the rot was my fault because I'd removed the screws in the posts that hold the bunk up and didn't put them back well. I removed the clip securing the porta potty but i did seal those holes. Once the water gets in a hole it is free to travel and will never evaporate. If my balsa kerfs had been well sealed the rot might not have traveled so far. And I kept using the boat well past the point I should have knowing what was happening. I think my case was extreme and rare.

Smarter folks than I can chime in here on what to look for. I'd check out all places where screws penetrate the deck. Remove them and drill out to see if it's wet. If not follow the recommendations you can find on here for over drilling and filling with epoxy. Once filled you should be safe. If it is wet prepare for a bit of excavation.

I love my boat and it's all on me that things got this bad. I paid for it yesterday when I lay my head in a puddle of epoxy while tabbing under the bunk. I spent a bit of time bent over washing my head with acetone!

Hope all goes well and you have many years of fun on your boat.

[thataway]

You need to sound and use a moisture meter to see what damage there is in the core.

First I am going to disagree a little with Jackie. It is not her fault. This started before she owned the boat when you look at the extent. Second it would probably only happen in a place where there is freeze and thaw cycles. Water gets in thru a screw hole (or any penetration, not sealed), it freezes and expands. Then as it melts, more water is dawn in--freeze thaw again. I do agree that it was very rare to see this extent.

As for looking at the 16 Takenotes is considering: You want to know where it was, and how it was repaired. Is there a core pentration near this point? If so, ask permission to remove that screw--and see if there is an epoxy core around it, or if there is water in the screw hole.. Next "sound" the boat's bottom and transom. Surveyors talk about a phenolic hammer--and that is what I use, but a plastic screwdriver handle, a dime or even your knuckles will give some idea. If it is a thud, instead of a higher "note", if there are variations thru the hull bottom, then look further.

Next is a moisture meter. I use a cheap General MMP7ND. You need the relative readings. There are precautions about meters. David Pascoe and Maine sail both have good information. (For some reason the site is not taking my full post, so I will break it up).

[thataway]

The next "test" is a moisture meter. You can either spring for a Tramex Skipper Plus for about $470, or a cheap one from Home Depot Like my General MMD7NP at Lowes or Amazon for $45. In-between is the Electrophysics CT33. What you are looking at is % reading between several different areas--a dry one and a suspect area. There are some negatives with moisture meters, including don't read surfaces which were recently wet, been sitting in water (IE on haul out day for a survey). Metal containing bottom paint, near areas of metal (like screws or support plates). There are FLIR Infra red cameras. For example t he FLIR attachment for smart phone for $400....Actually my FLIR night vision scope can give a lot of information. (If you happen to have one of those...).

Let us know what you find. The proper repair would have been to pull the top layer of fiberglass off, find the wet core, remove it, clean up and then put in new core, cover with new glass--I prefer epoxy. Be sure that all of the screws go into an epoxy plug. Any screw in a cored deck or hull should go into epoxy plug...but very few boat builders do this.

[Jackie]

Well, I am pretty much done...and done in! I have had a family trip obligation on the books leaving Sept 8 for ages, but wanted one test ride before I left. I got everything replaced and ready, at least to the point of running the boat, and will finish off when I return at the end of the month.

I uploaded photos. First I got the bunk in place and reattached the 'fins' I'd had to cut off even with the porta potty slot. The cuts had been necessary in order to get the bunk out since I couldn't remove my sidewalls. Then I tabbed the underneath of the bunk about 20 inches back. Once all that set up I tabbed the top. The bunk does not actually touch the hull at the start and the gap is over an inch. It lessens as it moves toward the bow. Since a lot of the tab would be over open air, I laminated the strips together first and placed them from bow back working side to side. I think it is quite strong, but I was not able to keep a shallow groove from forming along the side. Oh well, If any water gets in the berth it will funnel to the edge and out. But if I'm getting water up that high, I might have other problems! I sanded that area before starting the seat boxes.

My sons helped with the first seat box and it went smoothly, but we realized they were so close together we'd never get the second one in without ruining the work on the first. By evening it had set up and I did the second. There has been no sanding but it looks pretty good, though you can see the fuzzy fibers on my slapdash job on the bunk posts. Needs some work in several places. Time will tell if I can get it smooth and pretty for painting. I'm using a two part epoxy paint and the topcoat should be in when I get home. I ordered a color from their chart that was the closest match to the sample I had. I'm not gonna try gelcoating. Right now it is all raw fiberglass but I'm happy.

I charged up the battery and reinstalled everything. Got my Coast Guard required safety gear, lines, bouys, lifejackets, etc off my son's boat where they had managed to land, packed some steak to cook at the cabin and the boys and I loaded up and put in at the marina. Of course the engine wouldn't start. . The kicker did and I have a slip there, so we motored over to it and started troubleshooting while everybody in the world putted past us on their way to enjoy the last day of Knudsen Cove's Silver Salmon Derby. It's a sad feeling. My son-in-law has since fixed it. The battery had sat for too long and wasn't quite strong enough to turn the motor over. I still had packing to do so we just headed home and grilled there. BUT - it will be ready to go when I get there and here's to hoping the nice weather holds. We broke our last rainiest summer record with over 47 inches in June, July and August. It finally got nice the day before I left. You're welcome, Ketchikan.

[smckean (Tosca)]

Jackie, you are an inspiration! If I am ever again tempted to complain about something I need to fix, I will just think of you, and no doubt a more positive attitude will show up.

P.S. Speaking of rain in Ketchikan.....many years ago, I had to go to Juneau on business. I had never been to Alaska before that trip. The flight had a hour+ layover in Ketchikan. I de-planed to see what I could see. I was staring out the airport window while, no surprise to you, it was raining heavily. I struck up a conversation with a local, and eventually asked: "Hey, how much rain do you guys get around here in a year, anyway?" He replied: "Oh, about 13 feet." I was dumbfounded. For this California kid, it never occurred to me than annual rainfall might be measured in feet instead of inches.

[thataway]

Well done Jackie! That paint and the boat will look, and be, better than new!