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Leak or condensation?
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Fishcatcher907



Joined: 05 Apr 2019
Posts: 71
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Legacy
Photos: Legacy
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:31 pm    Post subject: Leak or condensation? Reply with quote

I got a question guys and gals.

On my 22 cruiser I’ve been noticing a drip in my v birth. It appears to be coming off a couple of the rivets. Is this condensation? Or do I have a bigger problem I need to address?
It’s 2 different rivets one on the right side of the entrance and one on the left.

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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20779
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it is off the rivets and no other areas of condensation....you will have to address the rivet issue.
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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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T.R. Bauer



Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 1726
City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It hasn't been raining up here for the last couple of days and if you were sleeping in the "V" over the weekend I think it is just condensation. Every piece of hardware is a cold sink and will condense more than the surrounding area in our unique climate. I was in PWS over the weekend and I'm reasonably sure the difference between outside and inside over the night was 40-50 degrees or more as it was 70 F in the cabin and the bay had lots of frozen in spots by morning. Every wall in the "V" was moist and the hardware was dripping. My sleeping bag by the wall was soaked. But I will concede, Bob has a point too as if it were raining and if everything else is dry, that's a leak for sure.
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tsturm



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 1134
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T.R. Bauer wrote:
It hasn't been raining up here for the last couple of days and if you were sleeping in the "V" over the weekend I think it is just condensation. Every piece of hardware is a cold sink and will condense more than the surrounding area in our unique climate. I was in PWS over the weekend and I'm reasonably sure the difference between outside and inside over the night was 40-50 degrees or more as it was 70 F in the cabin and the bay had lots of frozen in spots by morning. Every wall in the "V" was moist and the hardware was dripping. My sleeping bag by the wall was soaked. But I will concede, Bob has a point too as if it were raining and if everything else is dry, that's a leak for sure.


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san juanderer



Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 234
City/Region: Stanwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1990
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have owned many different brand of boats with leaky rivets, including the C-dory. Do not create a bathtub within the rubrail , by sealing the bottom edge of the rubrail. Seal the top line all the way around the hull. I even drill like 1/8th holes under the vinyl insert edge ( thru the aluminum piece ), this I have found to relieve the build up of water behind the rubrail. Has been amazing how much water flowed out of the holes, even with an un-sealed bottom rubrail edge. Creates a path of least resistance.
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Fishcatcher907



Joined: 05 Apr 2019
Posts: 71
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Legacy
Photos: Legacy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The leaking rivets are directly overhead in the v. I can’t imagine where or how the water could get in to leak out the rivet. The only hole in the v is the window hatch. But that seems to be sealed well. I ran a sprinkler on the v for awhile and eventually it started to leak. On the other hand due to the cold water I also developed some condensation in the v as well. I’m a little perplexed. If it’s a leak I need to address it ASAP.
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Standas



Joined: 07 Sep 2019
Posts: 49
City/Region: Poulsbo
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2013
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C -Time
Photos: C -Time
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I would remove the rubber insert on the rail and take a look at the condition of the rivets. If you have a few leaky rivets you most likely have some that are not far behind. Insert is fairly easy to place back in. I soaked the rubber in warm water before placing it back into the aluminum. When I removed mine because of leaks so many of the rivet heads had corroded off I was amazed it stayed on the boat.
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Fishcatcher907



Joined: 05 Apr 2019
Posts: 71
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Legacy
Photos: Legacy
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Standas wrote:
I think I would remove the rubber insert on the rail and take a look at the condition of the rivets. If you have a few leaky rivets you most likely have some that are not far behind. Insert is fairly easy to place back in. I soaked the rubber in warm water before placing it back into the aluminum. When I removed mine because of leaks so many of the rivet heads had corroded off I was amazed it stayed on the boat.

The rivets I’m referring to are on the top of the V-birth roof. Above the rub rail and in the center of the boat. One just right of the entrance and one on left.
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tsturm



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 1134
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fishcatcher907 wrote:
Standas wrote:
I think I would remove the rubber insert on the rail and take a look at the condition of the rivets. If you have a few leaky rivets you most likely have some that are not far behind. Insert is fairly easy to place back in. I soaked the rubber in warm water before placing it back into the aluminum. When I removed mine because of leaks so many of the rivet heads had corroded off I was amazed it stayed on the boat.

The rivets I’m referring to are on the top of the V-birth roof. Above the rub rail and in the center of the boat. One just right of the entrance and one on left.


Where the helm & dash attach to the under side of the fore deck or celling of v berth has always been a condensation issue in both of my boats. YMMV Thumbs Up
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Fishcatcher907



Joined: 05 Apr 2019
Posts: 71
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Legacy
Photos: Legacy
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tsturm wrote:
Fishcatcher907 wrote:
Standas wrote:
I think I would remove the rubber insert on the rail and take a look at the condition of the rivets. If you have a few leaky rivets you most likely have some that are not far behind. Insert is fairly easy to place back in. I soaked the rubber in warm water before placing it back into the aluminum. When I removed mine because of leaks so many of the rivet heads had corroded off I was amazed it stayed on the boat.

The rivets I’m referring to are on the top of the V-birth roof. Above the rub rail and in the center of the boat. One just right of the entrance and one on left.


Where the helm & dash attach to the under side of the fore deck or celling of v berth has always been a condensation issue in both of my boats. YMMV Thumbs Up


That’s the spot! Thank you sir!
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san juanderer



Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 234
City/Region: Stanwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1990
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the leak is on the overhead portion of the cuddy roof, the only penetration is the bomar hatch. Just because it looks like it is sealed, does not reveal the truth. My hatch had sealant between the hatch flange and the cutout surface.
Sealant remained on the fiberglass surface, but nothing was adhered to the aluminum bomar hatch flange. Had been leaking for years, and the core was completely rotted out. Wet like a sponge ! I also removed every other item, cleats, antenna mounts, anchor locker pipe, bow railing. None were sealant bedded correctly, and the majority were leaking inward. Bad sealant and poor worker attention to details by the factory people. Use Boat Life Life Seal. It will stick to both surfaces!
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Marco Flamingo



Joined: 09 Jul 2015
Posts: 1154
City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Limpet
Photos: Limpet
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may have pictures of a similar problem in my photo album under "Balsa Core Issues." What I thought was condensation on the through-deck fittings was probably a combination of condensation and balsa core moisture. I didn't have any rivets through that area. I had SS through bolts for the bow pulpit and helm panel. There were also small SS screws that held the electrical wire for the bow light. Those had slight rust discoloration around them and, since they didn't go clear through and conduct cold into the berth, were suspect. When I removed them I found that the balsa was soaked and the moisture might have been dripping in rather than condensation.
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Fishcatcher907



Joined: 05 Apr 2019
Posts: 71
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Legacy
Photos: Legacy
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

san juanderer wrote:
So the leak is on the overhead portion of the cuddy roof, the only penetration is the bomar hatch. Just because it looks like it is sealed, does not reveal the truth. My hatch had sealant between the hatch flange and the cutout surface.
Sealant remained on the fiberglass surface, but nothing was adhered to the aluminum bomar hatch flange. Had been leaking for years, and the core was completely rotted out. Wet like a sponge ! I also removed every other item, cleats, antenna mounts, anchor locker pipe, bow railing. None were sealant bedded correctly, and the majority were leaking inward. Bad sealant and poor worker attention to details by the factory people. Use Boat Life Life Seal. It will stick to both surfaces!

Thanks for your response. Do you know if there a gasket for the outside of that hatch? I will remove it and reseal as soon as I have the right supplies.
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tsturm



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 1134
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fishcatcher907 wrote:

Thanks for your response. Do you know if there a gasket for the outside of that hatch? I will remove it and reseal as soon as I have the right supplies.


3M 5200 on the hatch or any thing else that needs to be watertight Thumbs Up run a hose on the hatch on a day like today & see if its dripping.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20779
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This illustrates why photos (or maybe a Zoom conference) would help to clarify the situation.

The pop rivets which hold the shelf to the deck molding do not go to the outside of the boat. Thus most likely condensation....however, it is remotely possible that some water is leaking around the forward hatch and working its way via the core to this area. My experience is that where the pop rivets are seems to be thru two rather thin areas of solid fiberglass. But since I don't currently have a 22, I may be wrong.

It is not uncommon for the forward hatch to leak and not be seen. Thus I take these hatches out when I buy a boat, and check the core--seal the core with thickened epoxy, put plugs in where the screws go, and then put the hatch. back in place with proper sealants. Some of the hatch cutouts were too large, and the ""gaps" were just filled with a Bostick sealant--this will eventually leak. In that case, you might have to add more fiberglas around the inside of the hatch. I had to do that with my Tom Cat 255 within the first week of ownership.
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