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wierd stain
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Z50



Joined: 09 Jan 2019
Posts: 38
City/Region: Alachua
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2018
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Beach Donkey
Photos: Beach Donkey
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:28 pm    Post subject: wierd stain Reply with quote

Took the boat out this past weekend for four days and a brown stain appeared under the port side gunnel near the cabin. Where is this coming from? I was in clear water the entire time. Pictures are in my album.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like this is weeping out of a pinhole between the tabbing for the bulkhead, the hull and underside of the gunnel deck. What penetrations are there on the top of the gunnel? It is possible that water travels feet from the point of entry. Most likely you will end up pulling each piece of hardware on top of the gunnel, under cut any core, and then fill with thickened epoxy, re-drill any pilot or bolt holes, and then properly bed with a adhesive/bedding compound--such as 3M 4000.
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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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Z50



Joined: 09 Jan 2019
Posts: 38
City/Region: Alachua
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2018
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Beach Donkey
Photos: Beach Donkey
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is nothing on the top of the gunnel. No holes. Its coming out of the side. Ill take a better closeup.
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colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 4523
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Traveler
Photos: C-Traveler and Midnight-Flyer
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost like spilled coffee or something...
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 3358
City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might be water from the rub rail attachments. Your picture might be showing the inside of the fastening of the rub rail (bump in the upper right of the image). They can rust and the water run down under the interior spray on speckle finish until a break in the finish lets the water come out. You'll probably find that pressing on the interior surface somewhere directly in line above where the water runs out will indicate a blister or bubble in the finish. There may be a noticeable vertical distance between where the water seeps out and a rub rail rivet, but where the water comes out will likely be vertically below where a rub rail rivet goes through the hull.

My boat had these in one or two places. If you seal the rub rail top and bottom with 5200 and press the water out you should be ok. The hull sides are not cored, so a little water seepage down the side is not an issue (IMO). In my case the amount of water was just several drops.
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

is this inside the cockpit? Is there a bulkhead with tabbing next to it? There will be cleats and perhaps public's, screws holding hatch covers all of which all be on top of the deck.

Tabbing is a narrow strip of fiberglass which holds bulkheads and furniture in place. It is clearly seen in the photo is as a pin hole. Water get into the deck core and travel the length of the boat.

Not tea or coffee stain.

This appears to material from either the core and / or even some un-cured resin by products which will turn dark.
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tsturm



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 1134
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: wierd stain Reply with quote

Z50 wrote:
Took the boat out this past weekend for four days and a brown stain appeared under the port side gunnel near the cabin. Where is this coming from? I was in clear water the entire time. Pictures are in my album.


In my 25, that would be called a rusting rub rail rivet Wink

Aluminum pop rivet with a STEEL mandrel, when they POP the steel ball stays in the rivet. I drilled all mine out & replaced with STAINLESS. Wink
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Z50



Joined: 09 Jan 2019
Posts: 38
City/Region: Alachua
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2018
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Beach Donkey
Photos: Beach Donkey
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
is this inside the cockpit? Is there a bulkhead with tabbing next to it? There will be cleats and perhaps public's, screws holding hatch covers all of which all be on top of the deck.

Tabbing is a narrow strip of fiberglass which holds bulkheads and furniture in place. It is clearly seen in the photo is as a pin hole. Water get into the deck core and travel the length of the boat.

Not tea or coffee stain.

This appears to material from either the core and / or even some un-cured resin by products which will turn dark.


yes this is inside the cockpit
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could be from a pop rivet. My initial impression was that it was above the "hull to deck joint/rub rail". But if this is at the same level as the outside rub rail, then I would agree it is a pop rivet. Also concur with questioning why a non stainless steel mandrel is used?
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DayBreak



Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 838
City/Region: Monmouth, Or.
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 2018
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: DayBreak
Photos: DayBreak
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Z50, have you called the factory in Fairhaven, Washington where your boat was made at NMI? I notice your Venture is a 2018 and I would think they have some provision as warranty to make a repair for you even though you are located in Florida. We had a couple of minor issues with our boat, took it to them and they corrected them for free. Gary.
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journey on



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3593
City/Region: Valley Centre
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: journey on
Photos: Journey On
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i called TMI a couple of years ago when I was replacing the pop rivets that had popped out. At that time they said they weren't using the same fastening method. One might check what was used and how they could leak. I replaced them with 1/4 in bolts where I could reach the back and sheet metal screws where I couldn't.

Also, if one mixes aluminum and stainless, there is corrosion. So an al pop rivet with a SS core is guaranteed to corrode.

Boris
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tsturm



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 1134
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

journey on wrote:
i called TMI a couple of years ago when I was replacing the pop rivets that had popped out. At that time they said they weren't using the same fastening method. One might check what was used and how they could leak. I replaced them with 1/4 in bolts where I could reach the back and sheet metal screws where I couldn't.

Also, if one mixes aluminum and stainless, there is corrosion. So an al pop rivet with a SS core is guaranteed to corrode.

Boris


All mine were replaced with Stainless pop rivets or #10x32 machine screws all w/ back up washers 10 years ago all good so far Wink Beer
Expensive @50 cents each but only have it do it once. Back then my time was worth something Mr. Green Thumbs Up
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boris is correct, but the replacement rivet would be all SS. I used a bunch of them on one of my RV's, You to use a higher leverage tool, but it works very well. I have built up several sailboat masts using SS pop rivets multiple times and the rigs stood up for years with minimal corrosion..

I save aluminum pop rivets for aluminum projects. If you use Tuf-Gel there should not be bad interactions. If you replace with SS bolts you have the same issue--Maybe in 30 years replace the rub rail??
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journey on



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 3593
City/Region: Valley Centre
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: journey on
Photos: Journey On
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, to beat this to death, if you're going to use all stainless fasteners, pop rivets or bolts, please use a plastic washer under the fastener head. The rub rail is aluminum and gets filled with salt water. I also drilled a couple of weep holes to make sure the water had a way out.

I first found out about that corrosion on our sailboat, where the mast was corroded around a ss fastener. That was in Mexico, so that boat was only a couple years old.

Boris
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our Cal 46 was 18 years old when we bought it. I checked the SS fittings and all were good, plus I added another winch and some other mast fittings. The difference may have been that the Cal 46 mast was an oversized extrusion, and the mast had been painted from the beginning. If there was any corrosion it was addressed and touched up immediately. I would go up the rig and inspect each fitting before we made any offshore passage, as well as yearly.
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