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Tomcat 255 batteries not charging
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joechiro30



Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Posts: 145
City/Region: Lynnwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:47 pm    Post subject: Tomcat 255 batteries not charging Reply with quote

I have been charging my batteries through shore power all winter. Just recently tried to start my motors and found that my batteries were drained. My batteries have not been charging even though my charging switch is on. Any help would be appreciated.
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smckean (Tosca)



Joined: 18 Jan 2014
Posts: 974
City/Region: Guemes Island (Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Tosca
Photos: Tosca
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turn off charger

Turn all battery switches to off

Measure voltage at each battery's terminals with a volt meter and report back.

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Sandy McKean
Purchased Tosca in 2014
Re-powered to Yammi 200 in 2015
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joechiro30



Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Posts: 145
City/Region: Lynnwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zero volts on all batteries Sandy. Can I call you btw?
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most likely a bad battery charger. Do you have the factory "Guest" Charger charger? They invariably fail. The more resent "Guest" Chargers claim to be "smart" chargers, and they may be different...

Generally batteries do better with one of the "smart" chargers if left on all of the time: For example: Blue Seas; ProMariner-Pronautique, MasterVolt, Victron, or NOCO Genius are examples. They sample the battery and then apply charge only if needed. Most of the others are more like "trickle" chargers and there is some risk of damage to the batteries if left on all of the time.

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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joechiro30



Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Posts: 145
City/Region: Lynnwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr Bob I have the stock guest ones. How do I know if it is bad?
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joechiro30



Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Posts: 145
City/Region: Lynnwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well took the world circuit breaker out and gonna change to a new one and see what happens.
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gulfcoast john



Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 989
City/Region: PENSACOLA
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2010
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Cat O' Mine
Photos: CAT O' MINE
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joechiro,
A circuit breaker is a simple magnetic on/off switch that very seldom fails, compared to Guest battery chargers, which often fail right after the 12 month warranty if not before. You are Truly Blessed if your 2006 Guest charger actually worked for 13 years.

Any 12v boat battery showing 0 volts (or under 10.5 volts for that matter) is ruined and junk. (“He’s Dead, Jim”. Get Over It). Don’t even try to charge it, it’s too dangerous.
After your new circuit breaker proves it’s not the culprit....

Consider replacing all three 12v batteries with flooded Sam’s Club group 31’s at about $95 each. This is your cheapest but very reasonable option. (I currently like Northstar g31 AGM’s but can not really justify the $440 each price because a switchcraft error can ruin all three. Maybe you can.)

Get a decent replacement charger from Bob’s list.

My experience with my Guest replacement Blue Seas P12 40A charger is one of my best customer service experiences in 45 years of boating.

Me: “It’s 2 years into a 5 year warranty (PS NO OTHER BOAT BATTERY CHARGER HAS A 5 YEAR WARRANTY). I have a meter 120v going in, but the display is blank. Could you help me through the troubleshooting?”

US Blue Seas Tech Support right there in Bellingham, WA: “Well sir, it died. I see your warranty registration. I will Fed Ex you a brand new factory replacement 40A P12 unit today (retail $799) with a sticker for free return shipping of your failed unit to us. Just put the failed unit in the new unit box and apply the free return label.”

Now THAT is Customer Service! I love Blue Seas!

Sometimes (actually, frequently, in my experience) buying Quality The First Time is cheaper than all the alternatives!

Best,

John

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John and Eileen Highsmith
2010 Tom Cat 255, Cat O' Mine
Yamaha F150, LXF150
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joechiro30



Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Posts: 145
City/Region: Lynnwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John you are right. The breaker is fine. But charger is bad. I have to replace it. I will go with the blue seas P12 40A charger. The same connections that went to the guest use the same connections for the P12?
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gulfcoast john



Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 989
City/Region: PENSACOLA
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2010
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Cat O' Mine
Photos: CAT O' MINE
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Joe,
Regardless of brand, replacing your unit should be easy as in 4 color coded wires. So I would tend to reassure you that you don’t need another Guest unit, based only on ease of wiring it alone.

I respectfully would ask Dr Bob for options here, as he has always had a much better picture of what’s available for which kind of user than I do.

One of my many weaknesses is a tendency to ‘buy the best the first time’, which is not always (or even often) the best advice for the majority of our beloved C-Dory fleet.

Dr Bob has given me absolutely invaluable advice on a wide range of boating options re our TC255. I hope he opines here. I am quite sure he and Marie are not currently exploring the continent’s waterways. If they are, while we are not, Eileen and I are going to be quite pissed.

He should be researching battery charger options for C-Dorys, like all the other home prisoners. Just My Opinion (chuckle).

Best,
John
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Avidmagnum12



Joined: 23 Mar 2013
Posts: 668
City/Region: Ocklawaha
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Otter
Photos: C-Otter
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ProNautic P battery chargers also have a 5 year warranty. I have not had to use it yet other than the battery temperature cable failed and they promptly sent me a new one. Very happy with mine. One of the things to consider with any new high output charger is to make sure to have proper sized cables for the length of run. The ProNauticP chargers are not cheap ether but we’ll worth it.

Tom

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Tom and Joyce Schulke

2011 CD 25 "C-Otter" 07/2015 to present
2011 CD 25 "My Girl" 06/2015 renamed C-Otter
2004 CD 22 Commuter "Out2C" 03/10 to 06/15
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joechiro30



Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Posts: 145
City/Region: Lynnwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone I went with the blue seas p12 25a gen 2

What batteries do you recommend?
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AS usual Tom gives excellent advice. I put in heavier wiring for the bigger charger. Probably #8 to fully take advantage of the 40 amps when necessary. You will have to upgrade Fues or brakers on the battery side also. Fuse for the wire size/amp output: There are two application types:

Critical (3% voltage drop). Non Critical (10% voltage drop). You can consider the battery charger non critical, but for most efficient use, if you will really be putting out 40 amps to one battery bank, then you would use the larger wire.

The length of run, includes the positive and negative leads--so if you measure 15 feet, the length is 30 feet total. 20 feet: 40 feet total.

With 25 amps you probably will be OK with#8 wire. That was what I used in my Tom Cat, and in the current 25.
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joechiro30



Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Posts: 145
City/Region: Lynnwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr Bob
I am getting the Blue seas P12 25a

Can I just swap out the units and keep the same fuses and wiring as with the stock guest one?
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joechiro30 wrote:
Dr Bob
I am getting the Blue seas P12 25a

Can I just swap out the units and keep the same fuses and wiring as with the stock guest one?


You can, but you should upgrade the wiring for the 25 amps. The Guest is 5 5 10, I believe (means the two outputs are 5 amps and one is 10 amps). Check to see what model you have. Also check to see if the wire was #12 or #10 currently. If you put 25 amps thru a 10 amp fuse or circuit breaker, it will blow the fuse or pop the breaker. I believe that the Blue Seas is capable of putting out all 25 amps to the house battery. The Guest put out 5 amps to each start battery and 10 amps to the house. The wiring would be sized for 10 amps. Not 25 amps as our excellent Blue Seas charger puts out.

One might say: " the house battery is the only battery which requires high output and thus you might get away with just upgrading the wiring there. It would be an unusual circumstance where you would have to run a lot of current to an engine start battery, but could happen. For example the engine start battery is run down by bilge pump, or just trying to start the engine, and then the charger is turned on.

At the very least up grade the negative wire and the house battery cables. You are buying an excellent very sophisticated charger which will do a lot of wonderful things for the batteries life span. In the long run the upgraded wiring would be the best road to take.

The wire run from the charger (under the aft dinette seat?) to the Starboard side aft where the Stb and house (?) batteries are in your boat, is at least 15' and probably closer to 20' one way. Thus you have to wire size for at least 30, and more likey 40 feet. Non critical at 25 amps you can get away with #10 wire--but if it is more you will loose more than 10% and possible overheat the wire, blow the fuse/breaker. If you only want the 3% voltage drop--then for 30 feet and 25 amps you need #6 wire!!! The minimum would be #8 wire.... If you moved the batteries (went to AGM batteries and put inside the cabin, then you would get away with smaller gauge wire.

Also you should run the Blue Seas temperature sensor to the house batteries. This prevents the charger from overheating and damaging the batteries.
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gulfcoast john



Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 989
City/Region: PENSACOLA
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2010
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Cat O' Mine
Photos: CAT O' MINE
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom,
Thanks for the update that ProNautic now also has a 5 year warranty on their battery chargers. Good to know! Where are they made?

Dr Bob,
Thanks for the advice on wiring.
My P12 40A also has the option of dialing down the charging amps to whatever the owner wants, which would help the OP to be safe and upgrade the wires later.

I still haven't got around to wiring the P12 temp probe, but it's on the list.

Maybe we need another few years of home detention to get around to everything...hope not!

Cheers!
John
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