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rbfconstruction
Joined: 19 Sep 2017 Posts: 126 City/Region: huntington beach
State or Province: CA
Photos: Angler Management
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Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:18 pm Post subject: NADA guidelines crap |
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Hi, I have a 2006 C dory 19 Angler for Sale. I have it selling for 26,500 with a buyer. The bank will only loan on "nada" and so since the buyer only has 3000 down, cannot qualify for a boat loan because fn "nada" apparently has my boat at $15,600. Has anyone been able to tell the bank they are full of sh#t ? aaaaand they listened???? Any suggestions would be helpful. Any one out there with a boat like mine for that price - CALL ME, I will buy it.
PS- IT is not a credit problem. They have good credit.
Richard |
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Da Nag
Joined: 24 Oct 2003 Posts: 2828 City/Region: Port Angeles
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1995
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruise Ship
Vessel Name: Wilbur
Photos: Da Boats
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Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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That's always been the case with NADA and KBB. Plenty of posts about it here, and it's not limited to C-Dory. They list my Nordic in the 20's, and it's worth almost 4x that.
I don't recall the details, but I think either NADA or KBB might include only the hull in their valuations. If the outboard, electronics, trailer and anything else of value can be added in, that might bump their value - but I doubt it will be anywhere near close to reality.
Most buyers of C-Dorys don't seem to get boat loans unless new for the very reason you've discovered. They either pay cash, or use equity in their homes when borrowing is necessary. What might be possible, is finding a marine-specific lender that bases valuation on a survey. That adds several hundred dollars to the purchase process, but is typically closer to real market value. Peoples Bank up in WA does this, not sure what lenders might do the same down by you.
Good luck. _________________
Will, C-Brat Nerd ![Tux](images/smiles/icon_tux.gif) |
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ssobol
Joined: 27 Oct 2012 Posts: 3396 City/Region: SW Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
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Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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If you get a lender that regularly deals with boats, they should also check the BUC book value.
However, unlike NADA or KBB, you cannot use the BUC value system for free online (like for cars) to find its value for your boat. Lenders who lend for boats should have access though.
When I boat my CD22 the NADA value was about a third of the price the guy was asking for. My credit union checked the BUC book and had no problem with a loan for the price the boat was selling for.
http://www.buc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=books |
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Wefings Dealer
Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2086 City/Region: Panhandle
State or Province: FL
Photos: Cruise Ship #4
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Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Not all marine lenders are BUC friendly. I am a broker and provide soldboats.com data [sales history] , and/or a survey , but sometimes you just cant get it done . Credit unions will not loan at all without NADA in many cases.
NADA is fine for "commodity boats" Boston Whalers , Sea Rays , Gradys, etc...
Its a depreciation table plain and simple that does not use sales history in its values .
Marc _________________ Wefings Marine Website
Since 1909 |
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PaulNBriannaLynn
Joined: 26 Oct 2012 Posts: 757 City/Region: Fort White
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: Lorelei
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Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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I have experience being rejected for a c-dory loan. There I was intending to buy our first c-dory back in 2011, but did not have all cash to make it happen. I did had near perfect credit however.
The credit unions I inquired and was a member of would not do a boat loan for anything more than a couple years old. When I found a bank that would, they used NADA prices which did not help us out. I could have gone broke and bought a new c-dory, but that wasn't financially wise for us at that time when we were in the middle of a home renovation.
We ended up taking out a no collateral personal loan for the boat, and the interest was not good, it was 6% if I remember correctly. We made the deal happen however, and the following year paid off the loan in cash from the home we'd remodeled and flipped.
Was it the wisest way to get our c-dory, Im not sure but I was in love and wasn't thinking clearly.
![Laughing](images/smiles/icon_lol.gif) _________________ 2007 22 cruiser sold 10/2021
2009 Parker 23 sold 10/2017
2003 22 cruiser sold 3/2016 |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20875 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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Some sellers/buyers have taken the information from the sales (both advertised prices in the "for sale by owner" section, plus the "market place" section) to the Lender, as well as a marine surveyors appraisal of the boat.
Another resource is loans from "Lightstream", "Essex Credit" and "Lending Tree". The first two give lots of boat loans and often are more aware of real boat prices. The interest rates may be higher than a credit union. The other factor is the down payment. Higher down, easier to get the loan. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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Wefings Dealer
Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2086 City/Region: Panhandle
State or Province: FL
Photos: Cruise Ship #4
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Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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BTW Bob , Lightstream is Suntrust's direct lending product and Essex is Bank of the West's direct lending division.
I have a loan broker that we use when its a challenging customer/deal . They have many sources of money[lenders] to work with. Ill give Joey Gottfried a shout out at Newcoast Financial. If he cant get it done , usually no one can............. I've worked with him for 20 years . Great guy.
We lend through Bank Of The West , but all the really challenging ones go to Joey.
Marc |
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Nancy and Bud
Joined: 02 Aug 2019 Posts: 310 City/Region: Nashville
State or Province: IL
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Emma Mae
Photos: Emma Mae
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Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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Going around with State Farm on an insurance policy. The said they couldn't insure it for Agreed Value, only KBB.
Too bad, Progressive doesn't have that problem.
Breaking news. State Farm said OK when I told them I was going elsewhere. |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12633 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Meade's wrote: | Going around with State Farm on an insurance policy. The said they couldn't insure it for Agreed Value, only KBB.
Too bad, Progressive doesn't have that problem.
Breaking news. State Farm said OK when I told them I was going elsewhere. |
I ran into the same issue with Farmers, but worked with my agent, had a good survey, and took him printed notes of several sales of similar to mine. Then found he already had a same year, same color, same value C-Dory insured through his office. BINGO, mine got insured.
Harvey
SleepyC ![Moon](images/smiles/emmoon.gif) _________________ Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
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jemmka6@gmail.com
Joined: 17 Jun 2018 Posts: 8 City/Region: downey
State or Province: CA
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:32 am Post subject: |
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Your boats not selling because it's to expensive. Try lowering the price. It's just like anything, home, car, art, etc. There are people interested in your boat but not for that price. I get a laugh out of this c-dory website, so many people think there boats are worth so much. I will give that they are cool, but the boat is worth what someone is willing to pay. |
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Jimmie
Joined: 03 Apr 2018 Posts: 25 City/Region: Glen Allen
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:31 am Post subject: |
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jemmka6@gmail.com wrote: | Your boats not selling because it's to expensive. Try lowering the price. It's just like anything, home, car, art, etc. There are people interested in your boat but not for that price. I get a laugh out of this c-dory website, so many people think there boats are worth so much. I will give that they are cool, but the boat is worth what someone is willing to pay. |
His boat is selling. Buyer just needs a loan. No place here for negative comments in my book. |
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rbfconstruction
Joined: 19 Sep 2017 Posts: 126 City/Region: huntington beach
State or Province: CA
Photos: Angler Management
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:26 pm Post subject: nada guidelines crap |
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Thank you Jimmie. "Cool" is worth more. The asking price is set on a lot of factors, and yes cool is one of them. Another one is that it is a pilot house. Try buying a Parker or Defiance. I know it will only will sell for what someone is willing to pay. Perhaps I should have named it "ROLEX".
Richard
btw, Currently it is back on the market as the buyer could not get the proper loan.
The best part, I am going to be sad when it does. |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12633 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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jemmka6@gmail.com wrote: | Your boats not selling because it's to expensive. Try lowering the price. It's just like anything, home, car, art, etc. There are people interested in your boat but not for that price. I get a laugh out of this c-dory website, so many people think there boats are worth so much. I will give that they are cool, but the boat is worth what someone is willing to pay. |
Jemmka, Sure it would sell if he lowered the price, but why do that when the boat is worth what he is asking. It is a quality boat, and there are dicerning buyers out there who know the truth to the old saying, "You get what you pay for, and you pay for what you get." Sometimes you can get in under the wire, but when a C-Dory is priced too low, there has to be a reason. Sometimes it is that the seller truely does not know the value of his vessel, OR, it might be that it is a hurridly needed sale, or sometimes there are some sort of issues, ie deferred maintenance, or very high engine hours, or results of poor storage practices, but most folk here know how to keep their boats in good shape, protecting the resale value, AND the integrity of the C-Dory brand.
So, if you are looking for a C-Dory, good luck. If you find a "steal", maybe you get lucky OR ...... And down the road you may begin to appreciate the value of the PNW niche boat that has a following and a high resale value.
Harvey
SleepyC ![Moon](images/smiles/emmoon.gif) |
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jemmka6@gmail.com
Joined: 17 Jun 2018 Posts: 8 City/Region: downey
State or Province: CA
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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Well lets see, the boat was originally on craigslist for 25G. then latter on consignment for 27.5. Now its for sale for 26.5. No offense to the guy selling this boat, he's trying to get the most out of it. I get it, but people are watching.
Once the dumb money gone, guess whos left? There is a gorgeous 19ft c-dory for sale in Florida on this web site. He is asking 22.5 and to this day has not sold it. This boat has all the custom touches. Everything in life has a selling price and this one is a wee bit much. Lower the price!!! |
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Nancy and Bud
Joined: 02 Aug 2019 Posts: 310 City/Region: Nashville
State or Province: IL
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Emma Mae
Photos: Emma Mae
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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No dog in this fight. A boat is what a willing seller and a willing buy think it is worth. I missed a nice 22 for 20 K, was it "worth" more? Yes, was I a day late? Yes.
But we are in FL and will be inspecting Tinker Toy tomorrow. The boat is well equipped. Has a camper back, trim tabs, auto pilot, custom teak modifications, brand new tires on an aluminum trailer and the exterior looks in very good condition. The owners wife described him as meticulous. The pictures appear to reflect his care of the boat.
C-Dorys are a niche boat, with a loyal following and have tended to hold their value over time as the price of newer models continue to climb. I'm glad that there are used ones on the market.
It appears the OP had a buyer at whatever price but the problem was getting financing. My insurance agent wasn't going to sell enough coverage till I informed him that Progressive, who insures a lot of watercraft, had no problem with the amount of coverage I wanted. They ended up quoting an agreed value policy that was satisfactory and did it at a rate less than Progressive for the same coverage.
Having owned many boats and having experienced the loss of two of them, one on the Interstate and one by fire, I can tell you that State Farm treated me fairly on both and settled quickly with no BS.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I find nothing wrong with an seller asking whatever they want. Every forum has a culture. C-Brats culture seems to be one of respect and comradery, which is the spirit of friendship and community in a group. Bashing someone's choice of a selling price is not.
From the home page: No Rules - Just be nice! |
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