Fuel additives

Micahbigsur@msn.com · Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:45 pm Post subject: Fuel additives

The current Practical Sailor tests E15 corrosion additive protection, my old favorite Startron dropped from it's last testing, the only ones that passed their test (or did the best on fuel system corrosion) were a tie between Biobar EB and Sta-bil 360 marine. They did not test the Yamaha additive. They set up the test to mimic water condensation in tanks or moist air in through vents. I know that here In California we only use marine E10 % gas and never service station E15, but Boat US is currently lobbying against a federal change to all E15.

They also have an excellent article on plastic fuel tanks and bladders.

localboy · Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:16 pm Post subject:

Sta-bil 360 marine

I use this. Religiously.

BrentB · Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:38 pm Post subject:

I only use E zero or rec gas here in Florida and Yamaha Ring free.

Micahbigsur@msn.com · Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:51 pm Post subject:

We have no ethanol free gas available in California, so we need more than ring free.
The "third world" gas in Mexico is great, they have big modern outboards running great everywhere with no worries.

Barry Rietz · Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:07 pm Post subject: Pure-Gas.org

Have all of the listed ethanol-free gasoline sources been closed in California?
https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CA

Hunkydory · Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:07 pm Post subject:

I never add fuel without more blue stabil at a rate of 1 oz to 5 gallons & in 17 seasons have been forced to put ethanol gas in fuel tanks only a couple times. Also never a fuel related problem over these years with instant starts after storage from the long Wyoming winter turning to spring/summer.

DayBreak · Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:21 pm Post subject:

Micah and Dana. I have heard that in California, one can no longer buy non-ethanol fuel. Do you know if that is true? I used to live in the Bay Area many years ago and was able to buy non-ethanol fuel back then. Research shows that ethanol in fuel absorbs moisture and goes bad (starts to gel) in as little as 3 months in the tank. The use of it is regularly is really hard on rubber hoses and will deteriorate and make the rubber soft. It is good to be concerned about the fuel sitting in our tanks over the winter but hopefully you are not using ethanol in your boat by choice as I read your post. Non ethanol fuel costs more at the pump but is cheaper in the long run when compared to engine and fuel line repair. I encourage all boaters to use non-ethanol fuel in your boats. There is a lot of information out there on the web. Please do not just take my word for it.

Thanks, Gary.

ssobol · Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:15 pm Post subject:

Just as many people say ethanol fuel has never caused a problem as people who say it should be avoided at all costs.

Modern fuel system components and gas engines can handle 10% ethanol without any problems. Because of the ubiquity of 10% gas (98% of gas sold), manufacturers would be foolish not to make fuel system components ethanol compatible. Ethanol has been used in gasoline since the 70's, and the adoption of E10 was mandated by the clean air act in 1990. Ethanol in fuel is nothing new.

There is a risk of phase separation if the gas is stored in poor conditions. If it occurs and you run the engine on the bad gas you can have problems. Using stabilizers and checking the gas after storage periods can prevent issues.

One thing West Marine says is "E10 may actually be a superior marine fuel, as it tends to keep low levels of water moving through the fuel system, keeping the system “dry”. "

The engine in my boat is the same pretty much (according to Honda) as the one in my Honda car. If it can handle E10 gas, so will my outboard. The fuel system components in my boat are from the auto parts store (mostly), so no worries there either. I store my boat in the mid Atlantic region for about 5 months over the winter. I put stabilizer in whatever fuel is left over from the season and leave it at that. In the spring I top off with new fuel and off we go. I get most of my boat gas at whatever gas station is closest to the ramp.

TyBoo · Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:36 am Post subject:

I use E10 from Costco pretty much all the time without any fuel system problems. My Suzuki manual says up to 10% ethanol is fine.

If the boat will be sitting for a while I sometimes add Startron but I really think that is more of a feel good thing than anything else. It sure doesn't help my little 2-stroke Stihl motors any. I have used the blue Sta-bil in the past and did not see any benefit from it, either.

I can get ethanol free gas at the Astoria fuel dock for right about a buck fifty more per gallon but the motor seems to run better on the E10. The gas at the dock may be a lower grade, or maybe even a higher octane, and usually has a little water in it that shows up in the filter bowl so I actually prefer to cart the cheaper gas down in cans when the boat is in the slip.

Costco gas is top tier and always fresh and clean. It is good enough for my black car and good enough for my black outboard. Plus, there are some old guys working there so when I take the car in for premium gas I can say "fill 'er with ethyl" and they know what I mean.

Most fuel additives are just mighty expensive lighter fluid with 5% other ingredients including some mythical enzyme that may or may not do the same as the fuel line magnets from the '60s that aligned the gas molecules and deionized the fuel. (That is a joke, of course ... or is it?)

Micahbigsur@msn.com · Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:08 am Post subject:

There may be a few specialty fuel stations with pure gas in California in the biggest population areas but none near us. We have 15% almost everywhere with rumours about 10 that I haven't found on any actual pump label. My new Suzuki 200's warranty is void on over 10% ethanol but is fine with 10%. All our marine fuel docks have 10% but it costs $5 a gallon. Practical Sailors article was about the danger of alcohol tendency to absorb moisture in over time in storage and causing fuel system corrosion, they tested to find which if any additives slowed corrosion against the pure gas control sample. They used metal tabs that are used in standardized fuel corrosion testing. Of several tested only 2 were effective against alcohol/water borne corrosion. They didn't test for ethanol phase separation but gave advice on various ways to prevent it such as moisture absorbing filters in vents in wet or humid areas and trying run the boat enough to keep the gas fresh. I seem to remember that in past testing no additives prevented phase separation if ethanol blends had absorbed to much water. They also said water separator fuel filters have a hard time separating out the water when it is mixed with ethanol but small amounts aren't damaging.
Unfortunately I think you have to be a subscriber to read the online version of Practical Sailor and see their scientific testing articles. (pricey as they don't have advertising).

ssobol · Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:15 am Post subject:

TyBoo · Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:57 am Post subject:

Micahbigsur@msn.com · Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:30 am Post subject:

TyBoo, I have 6 Stihl saws, small to large (some of our redwoods are 7' through and we use the ones that get blown down) I always used to run the ethanol gas out of them for storage to keep the carbs good. That doesn't seem a very practical solution on large outboards. My new thing with the saws is to buy the small cans of ethanol free gas premix that are also stabilized at Home depot to finish the tanks with and I have had no problems and they are easier to start next use. That would also work on small outboards.

Hunkydory · Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:14 pm Post subject:

localboy · Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:01 pm Post subject:

I use 100% dyno gas in all my small engines. I get it at the farm co-op and it’s expensive. I’ll use any leftover in my old, air-cooled VWs. I usually have 15 gallons on hand. I put the red Stabil in each jug prior to filling, since it will sit for up to six months.