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Ranger Tug 21ec - My Observation!
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IdleUp



Joined: 06 Sep 2008
Posts: 157
City/Region: Smith Mountain Lake
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Model: R-25 Tug
Vessel Name: Linda Sue
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:22 pm    Post subject: Ranger Tug 21ec - My Observation! Reply with quote

I went to the Norfolk boat show to tie-up a deal on the Ranger 21ec but after spending around 45 minutes in the boat, I decided to pass up the opportunity to own one of these little tugs – here’s a few reasons:
1) Small Cabin - The cabin is too small for anyone – I seldom go out by myself and with two people in the cabin, it’s too small and confining. Bring a McDonalds Hamburger and drink with you and leave the goofy stove and sink out of the boat. No one is going to cook and wash dishes in this boat – it’s a joke! Put a good second seat in the boat so a guy can convince his wife the 60 grand was well spent and she doesn’t have to sit on the stove while under way.
2) Seating problems – the helm seat is totally wrong for the boat – Ranger should have come up with a better device for folding the seat down – you have to almost touch you toes to grab the rod to erect the seat - then while bent completely over, you have to plug the support in – I can’t imagine doing this with any type of seas going on so generally speaking the seat is either up or down most of the time.
3) Knee Problem - When I finally got perched in the helm seat – my knee’s were jammed right up against the wheel – to make matters worse – when I looked down I found my wet dirty shoes (it was raining) sitting right on the birth cushion, put a damn foot rest on the boat.
4) Passenger seat - The passenger seat is a joke - unless you’re bringing a 75 lb teenager with you - the seat is almost un-useable. You have to babysit the seat bottom when lowering it to prevent a 250 lb person from crushing your stove. In addition, the foot-rest is entirely too high.
5) Poor Egress - You can’t get in the cabin – the helm seat almost closes off the entrance of the cabin – luckily, I’m pretty thin and I had to turn sideways and the seat still was up against me. The majority of people in the US cannot fit by that seat. To make matters worse – they used bent sharp stainless steel hinge - so now you have sharp metal edges up against your body and clothes!
6) Beam too narrow – make the damn boat with a 7ft beam – it would handle better, roll less (use the same trailer) and this would give you another foot of space in the cabin and allow a normal person to enter the cabin without doing bodily damage trying to get by the seat. In addition, this would open up the aft walk-around’s by the engine.
7) Engine totally wrong – Hey, this is the 20th century - people have places to go and a schedule even when they are out in the boat. Even if you have all day, you still would like to get where you’re going so you could sit in the boat and enjoy it. The slow speed severely limits your distance from port – I assure you, you’re going to get real tired of only going on short trips and seeing the same exact scenery because of the slow speed. Another problem is you have wind up the little engine to 2500-3000 rpm to even cruise – all the while listening to the racket while the little engine is busting it’s butt to maintain 8 mph. Most small trawlers can idle the engine and do 8 knots. I had a Mainship 30 with a 150 hp Cummins and it used less fuel at the same speed that the Ranger tug does and it was almost silent at high idle. Bottom line, the engine is WAY TO SMALL for the boat. Take those damn batteries out of the engine compartment and put a decent motor in the boat. There is no reason why any boat can’t do at least 15-20 mph. What if you have an emergency or a storm coming? Put a 50-75 hp engine in the boat and instead of turning 3000 rpm you can turn 1000-1500 use less fuel, and have less noise and a big smile on your face as you actually see the shore moving by you. For you guys who like to go slow, you can still do that and save even more fuel.
Cool Bow Thruster – Thrusters are dirt cheap now – Ranger should leave some of the standard items off - like the sink & stove and others and put a thruster in every boat they sell - even if you have to charge more for it – I guarantee they would sell twice the boats. I would gladly sacrifice even my refrigerator for a thruster. While I’m sure all the expert seaman can dock the boat without a thruster, the majority of the people who by the 21 are not and trying to back that boat in a cross wind or current is a handful for even a seasoned pilot. The 21 is a boat with a glitter of options make a thruster standard equipment.
Anyhow – I hope I didn’t offend any of you guys on the forum - please don’t get me wrong – I love the Ranger Tug concept and design – what could be more fun than a little trawler. Bottom line, facts are facts, Ranger needs to address these problems -not everyone weighs 100 lbs and happy to go 8 mph and spend 65K to do it.

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Sawdust



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 1400
City/Region: Oak Harbor
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 22 Classic
Photos: C-Salt
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I totally disagree with all points. Rolling Eyes

Different strokes... the 21ec is a cool little boat.

Dusty

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marvin4239



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 1165
City/Region: Jacksonville Florida/Wilmington NC
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-FLE II
Photos: C-FLE II
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So did you buy the boat Question
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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City/Region: Pensacola
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C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idle up,
The boat is not for you. You were forewarned about the speed when you asked about it several days ago. The company has a niche and does well with it, but don't knock it because it does not suit your specific expectations.

I disagree with several of your statements--including that a small trawler idles at 8 knots--that would be top speed for many trawlers up to in the 45 foot range. As far as a 30 footer with a 150 Cummins using less fuel than the 21 tug--nonsense--and I have experience with a 30 foot boat with a 140 volvo.

As far adding 4" (6'8" is the current beam--you suggest 7 feet) it would make no significant difference in the interior. The smallest thruster would cost about $1500--but the installation, even in a new build would be almost as much as the cost of the thruster--so that is not "dirt cheap".

Ranger builds what seems to sell--and they are successful. You will have to look elsewhere. But amazingly you are not the only person who thinks the boat should go faster--that defeats the purpose of this boat....

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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
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Wefings
Dealer


Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 2086
City/Region: Panhandle
State or Province: FL
Photos: Cruise Ship #4
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you oughta step up to an R25 with the 150 Cummins...........
Marc

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Ron Cowan



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 179
City/Region: Athens
State or Province: AL
C-Dory Year: 1985
C-Dory Model: 22 Classic
Vessel Name: Elk-Tenn
Photos: Elk-Tenn
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idleup,
I am glad for your sake that you took the time to realize the 21EC does not meet your needs for a boat. I would hate to see anyone spend 60k and find out later it was not for them.
I did respone to your earlier post about the speed and admit it is an issue that one must get used to. At the same time your remarks are stated as though you speak for everyone (to small for anyone)etc. You are looking through your needs and wishes and should not be speaking as though you are voiceing all of our thoughts. The boat meets many of our needs and Ranger would not be successful if they did not.
I wish you luck in finding the boat of your needs and keep us posted on what it is. A c-dory 22' addresses most of the things I heard you say and it may be the boat for you. Ron

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IdleUp



Joined: 06 Sep 2008
Posts: 157
City/Region: Smith Mountain Lake
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Model: R-25 Tug
Vessel Name: Linda Sue
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mistake - I meant to say 7'8" on the beam (another foot).

Both my Mainship 30 & 34 would cruise 8 knots at a high idle, that's were i ran most of the time. While I could have lived with the slow speed - one of the main problems is the cabin, Ranger has totally screwed that up. The entrance to the helm and that nightmare seat is totally un-acceptable. Remember, you going to spend a lot of time at the helm because of the slow speed, so it has to be somewhat comfortable for the Captain & mate.

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone here you guys have been great - maybe I'm a little pissed because I really wanted one of the tugs. The items I mentioned, are real - I didn't make anything up. I read almost every post on the R21 and many of the members of this forum agree with many of my points. If you just want the boat to show off - then it's perfect, but in a real world situation, the points I brought up are factual.

If your looking for a little tug / trawler like the 21 - then you'll need to mortgage your house $$$ and go for the R-25 now that's a real little tug with comfort.
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K7MXE



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 151
City/Region: Eatonville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: R-21 EC Tug
Vessel Name: Lois H
Photos: Lois H
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:25 pm    Post subject: CR21ec Reply with quote

One of the things we have to be here is nice and I will try to do my best
I think my CR21EC has a lot of stuff packed into 21 feet. I have to agree
one one thing but do not know a better way to put in a second seat. I
run the boat by myself so I just took the seat out. I hope you find just
that boat your looking for. The little tug is just perfect for me and when
I see something I don't like I don't whine about it I just change it. I made
few changes!
Good Luck to you on your quest.
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TomRay
Dealer


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 121
City/Region: Punta Gorda
State or Province: FL
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
The smallest thruster would cost about $1500--but the installation, even in a new build would be almost as much as the cost of the thruster--so that is not "dirt cheap".

It's a $2,500 factory option.

Idle Up, I'm a little confused. You said you usually idle along at 8 knots in the Mainship, but 8 knots is too slow. May I suggest keeping the Mainship and throttling up? Wink

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Ron Cowan



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 179
City/Region: Athens
State or Province: AL
C-Dory Year: 1985
C-Dory Model: 22 Classic
Vessel Name: Elk-Tenn
Photos: Elk-Tenn
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idleup,
All of your points may be factual about the item itself. But not necessarily a problem or negative to all boaters.
For many of us there is a lot of boat packed in 21' and worth a lot more than to "show off". I for one could not afford a 30' or 34' boat. I bet you are a better captain than requiring a thurster to move a 21' boat around.
A 25' Ranger would be a great boat to have but $150k is a lot to pay for simple boating enjoyment. The 21' does not meet your needs so pay the bucks to get one that meet them.
Why not get off belittling things that don't meet your needs but do the needs of others. Ron
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 7444
City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope this doesn't come across as not being nice, but... why would anyone head somewhere to "tie up" a deal if you haven't done your homework??? You want faster, more room, a bigger cabin? Well, you just described a C-Dory 22. Oh, you won't have a diesel in it.

Just because this boat doesn't work for you is no reason that Ranger should change their design. You buy a boat for what it does and how you will use it... and it sounds like this boat should not have been on your consideration list to start with. We did have a guy who came on here several months ago with many of the same concerns you have AND a similar attitude... I'm speaking of that "Come on, Ranger, get with it..." stuff. You get to vote with your dollars, but that doesn't mean you get to control what they build. Check into a custom builder - see if they can come up with a marine architect who will design you just what you want. Frankly, I think you'll be hard pressed to come up with all that you want, keep it to 21 feet, and still have that inboard diesel.

Just out of curiosity, what other other boats are on your consideration list?

Jim B.

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IdleUp



Joined: 06 Sep 2008
Posts: 157
City/Region: Smith Mountain Lake
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Model: R-25 Tug
Vessel Name: Linda Sue
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomRay wrote:
thataway wrote:
The smallest thruster would cost about $1500--but the installation, even in a new build would be almost as much as the cost of the thruster--so that is not "dirt cheap".

It's a $2,500 factory option.

Idle Up, I'm a little confused. You said you usually idle along at 8 knots in the Mainship, but 8 knots is too slow. May I suggest keeping the Mainship and throttling up? Wink


When considering the price of the boat with a few options is 60K + and the thruster is only a $2500 option - their cost must be 50% of that. Ranger would be ahead of the game if they just made it standard equipment.

Regarding the slow speed - as I mentioned, it severely limits your activities to visit different and new locations if you're going out for the day. Also let's not lose sight of the fact if you're bucking a head wind, current, and some sea's you could easily find yourself in trouble. Like I mentioned, I'm a trawler type person I like going slow but there are times I would like to have the speed. Even though my truck could do 100+ mph I still travel only 55 mph. There is no reason in the world why that boat should only go 10 knots. It simply needs a bigger motor.
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BrentB



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

m2cw
Ranger made several changes and improvements when they came out with 21 EC. Be interested to know, if Ranger is planning new features and revisions.

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IdleUp



Joined: 06 Sep 2008
Posts: 157
City/Region: Smith Mountain Lake
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Model: R-25 Tug
Vessel Name: Linda Sue
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JamesTXSD wrote:
I hope this doesn't come across as not being nice, but... why would anyone head somewhere to "tie up" a deal if you haven't done your homework??? You want faster, more room, a bigger cabin? Well, you just described a C-Dory 22. Oh, you won't have a diesel in it.

Just because this boat doesn't work for you is no reason that Ranger should change their design. You buy a boat for what it does and how you will use it... and it sounds like this boat should not have been on your consideration list to start with. We did have a guy who came on here several months ago with many of the same concerns you have AND a similar attitude... I'm speaking of that "Come on, Ranger, get with it..." stuff. You get to vote with your dollars, but that doesn't mean you get to control what they build. Check into a custom builder - see if they can come up with a marine architect who will design you just what you want. Frankly, I think you'll be hard pressed to come up with all that you want, keep it to 21 feet, and still have that inboard diesel.

Just out of curiosity, what other other boats are on your consideration list?

Jim B.


It's funny you mentioned this but everyone that climbed aboard the 21 while I was there had the same exact comments . . . The cabin is too cramped, I don't think I could live with the 10 knots, and the price was too high.
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K7MXE



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 151
City/Region: Eatonville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: R-21 EC Tug
Vessel Name: Lois H
Photos: Lois H
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:27 pm    Post subject: CR21EC Reply with quote

Well I weigh in at 275 and I do not seem to have the problems you have.
I do have some wear on the wood trim where I plant my feet but I seem
to get in and out with no hassles. The nice folks at the Ranger factory
listen to the owners and change their boats to make them better. I
myself would have no use for a thruster but for those who want one its
a option. If the price is too high they will not have a waiting list, I think
right now you have to wait for both the 21 and 25. I think you are asking
a awful lot out of a 21 foot boat no matter what the cost is. Bayliners
cost a lot less and local dealer is going into receivership so maybe a
deal could be had and should go a lot faster and with the fold down
seats you could sleep two. Might be a good time to end this thread eh!
Bob Heselberg Eatonville Wa Hull #10 of the CR21
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