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bmcminn



Joined: 20 Jul 2019
Posts: 30
City/Region: Bellingham
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1992
C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: bmcminn
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:35 am    Post subject: Fuse size & wire gauge Reply with quote

Hi. Our boat does not have the 12 volt or USB wired from the control panel to the fuse box.

What size fuse and gauge of wire for the hot and ground would you suggest?



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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 17129
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your boat looks like it has been re-wired. There is a piece of starboard or plastic over where the factory wiring was, and then there is the West Marine panel (I have used these for auxiliary panels in some boats). Where does the 12 volt power come from?

The boats are often "under wired" from the factory--but there is almost always a circuit breaker near the battery. That is called for by ABYC and NMEA standards.

How long is the run from the battery to the panel where you want to run the wire? Twice that distance is the length you use to calculate the wire size, for the amp draw anticipated. In the 22 or 19, I would figure on at 30 amps for most boats. Lets say that there is abut 25' (round trip) from the battery to the panel. For less than 3% voltage drop (critical, and I recommend that for radio and electronics) it would be #6 wire and 30 amp fuse. Practically, however, I suggest #8 wire, because it will be extremely unusual you will be using more than 10 to 15 amps.
The draw of the USB port is only a couple of amps (@12 volts)

There are several places that have wire size, length and amp tables: . Here is an article from the Blue Seas site.

I download and print out this table and keep it in the boat manual.

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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
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Home port: Pensacola FL
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DavidM



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
Posts: 163
City/Region: Punta Gorda
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a different, maybe simpler approach:

That panel which I agree is probably non OEM is made by Blue Seas but is labeled West Marine. Here is a data sheet for three models, yours being the 6 breaker model. Click on the link to a pdf for specs and wiring diagram.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--dc-electrical-panels--P011861556?recordNum=26

All of the breakers seem to be 15A.

Since the bottom breaker looks like it is unused and the cigarette lighter and USB outlets you want to wire to is a few inches away, then run a 14 gauge wire from the bottom breaker to the pos cigarette lighter terminal and then in parallel to the pos USB terminal. There should be a negative buss close by, so wire the negative the same way from that bus.

David
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 17129
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may have mis-interputed the question. You want to know wire gauge and Fuse for the USB and cigarette lighter type of receptacle ? I thought you wanted to know the fuse and wire gauge from wiring the panel to 12 volts from your battery.


In that case I would say that 10 amps would do for the cigarette lighter type and 5 amps for the USB--but if you have a 15 amp breaker which you will dedicate from the panel I would just use that. For these short runs (only a few inches) #14 wire would be fine.

Quote:
That panel which I agree is probably non OEM is made by Blue Seas but is labeled West Marine


I doubt that this panel was made by Blue Seas. All of their panels are a higher quality, use a standard A frame circuit breaker made by Carling. I suspect that this panel is made in China for West Marine.
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DavidM



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
Posts: 163
City/Region: Punta Gorda
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:

I doubt that this panel was made by Blue Seas. All of their panels are a higher quality, use a standard A frame circuit breaker made by Carling. I suspect that this panel is made in China for West Marine.


Well, virtually everything is ultimately made in China.

The reason why I said it was a Blue Seas panel, is when you go to West Marine's website and find that product, then click on the link for Specifications and Wiring, it takes you to a Blue Seas pdf document.

That makes me think that Blue Seas designed and specified the panel, even though some Chinese shop makes them.

David
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BrentB



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 4364
City/Region: Greenwood
State or Province: IN
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would use 10 A fuse minand 10 or 12 G marine grade wire.

There are several
types of cig lighter outlets and would review all of the Blue Seas items for current and future use

ex

https://www.bluesea.com/products/1478/360_Panel_-_12V_DC_Socket_and_Dual_USB_Charger

or https://www.bluesea.com/products/4365/Water-Resistant_Accessory_Panel_-_15A_Circuit_Breaker_12V_Socket_2x_2.1A_Dual_USB_Chargers



full list

https://www.bluesea.com/products/1011/12_Volt_Dash_Socket

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BrentB



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 4364
City/Region: Greenwood
State or Province: IN
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I probably would move away from the switch panel and wheel

Find a spot so it can be safely used while boating like in a auto
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 17129
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The reason why I said it was a Blue Seas panel, is when you go to West Marine's website and find that product, then click on the link for Specifications and Wiring, it takes you to a Blue Seas pdf document.

Strange, because on my computer the pdf document says West Marine in multiple places.... I didn't sea "Blue Seas" anywhere. But I may have missed it?

Yes, many items are made in China--but there are quality items, vs cheap items. I tend to equate Blue Seas with quality. Blue Seas is a Power Product company, and their other lines are also high quality products, like Mastervolt, ProMariner and Ancor.

Looking at the original photos, there is the face of the added plastic panel which has the west marine breaker panel. On the second photo is a picture of a Fuse block with 12 fuse positions, which appears to be a Blue Seas product, but without its proper cover. That has mostly less than 16 gauge wire coming off--and what I would best guess is 10 gauge at the max feeding it. Most of these Fuses seem to be 3 to 5 amps

Is this the point where bmcminn wants to take power from for the cigarette lighter plug and UWB or is it the West Marine breaker panel, which appears to have two unlabeled (unused?) breaker slots (the lowest)? So where does bmcminn wish to take the power from. This would have bearing on the size of the wire. We would also want to know the distance the wire would run--as per my original post. But I would not put any more than 10 amps on this particular cigarette lighter type of plug. I don't see any indication that this is a Blue Seas plug or USB port--there are many of these ports available on Amazon etc--and many are not rated for more than 10 amps.

Brent--why do you feel that the cig lighter plug and USB port should be moved?
The standard C Dory panel (which appears to have been removed) in most boats has a plug in this location. In my boat, I have a USB 2 plug (with a 2 hour timer--and this may be important--because of over charging batteries) to the right of my helm. It is very handy to recharge or keep charged I pad for navigation (which many C Brat use). In our case we have 2 other stations, but in a 19, this seems like the logical place for the USB charger port.
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Micahbigsur@msn.com



Joined: 27 May 2019
Posts: 196
City/Region: Big Sur
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sierra
Photos: Sierra
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have a whole side of your fuse block open for use, the top screws are obviously for ground and the lower row the 12v positive.
I wire my cigarette plug outlets for a US auto standard 15 amp fuse and use 12 ga wire.
The latest USB 3 outlets put out a little less than an amp so I use a 2.5 amp fuse (sometimes hard to find, a 5 would be good on the double USB) and 14 or 16 ga wire depending on the run.
I always add more to the boat using small sub-fuse blocks in different locations which themselves run off a 20 amp main fuse.
Your main fuse block behind the helm should have at least a # 10 ga wire running up from the 25 or 30 amp fuse within 18" of the battery distribution multi-post. (Mine came with a 10 standard, I added 3 more #8 duplex up to run my new systems. (Required for the solar, battery charger and watermaker fuse block)
I use the better protected, neater, duplex wire for 95% of my wiring.
A lot of the cheap Chinese crimp connectors are worthless junk, try to use Ancor or equivalent. I lock out corrosion in all my connections with diaelctric silicone grease. Use adhesive shrink tube anywhere where it can get moist.
Good luck with your project, it should be fun!

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Micah Curtis and Dana, RN
2003 C-dory 25 Sierra, 200, 9.9 and 2.5 Suzukis
2012 R25 SC Sequoia (2015-2018)
1978 Folkes 38 SV Audacious (2006-2015)
+ many more going back to my first boat a little trailerable Piver trimaran in 1969.
Micah, KJ6GUF, Dana, KJ6GXG
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DavidM



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
Posts: 163
City/Region: Punta Gorda
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
Quote:
The reason why I said it was a Blue Seas panel, is when you go to West Marine's website and find that product, then click on the link for Specifications and Wiring, it takes you to a Blue Seas pdf document.

Strange, because on my computer the pdf document says West Marine in multiple places.... I didn't sea "Blue Seas" anywhere. But I may have missed it?


Laughing The file name for the Panel Specifications and Wiring Diagram is BlueSeaPanel.pdf. It is only because my crazy Adobe pdf viewer only downloads pdfs and doesn't open them directly from the app that I was able to see the file name.

David
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Micahbigsur@msn.com



Joined: 27 May 2019
Posts: 196
City/Region: Big Sur
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sierra
Photos: Sierra
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is curious to me why there is a yellow glass fuse holder wired into the 3rd fuse block slot up. Glass fuse holders inline can have more connection resistance than the easy to check blade fuses. Maybe the blade fuses don't go low enough for whatever device is wired in? If I can I cut out the inline fuses that come inline with a lot of electronics if it is a size that can be directly wired to a fuse in the block, avoiding a double fused line.
West Marine does not carry (or auto supplies) the full range of the ATC blade fuses, I find them on Amazon. They vary in quality avoid the cheap off brands.
I use silicone diaelctric grease on the blades of the fuses to avoid salt corrosion.
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BrentB



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 4364
City/Region: Greenwood
State or Province: IN
Photos: BrentB
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When running the boat, I would not wantd cords close to wheel or panel. It would be in the way plus other locations are available

I have one in the berth and plan to add one by table in our Parker. Maybe one in the pilot seat base
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bmcminn



Joined: 20 Jul 2019
Posts: 30
City/Region: Bellingham
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1992
C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: bmcminn
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi everyone. This is why I need to make a wiring diagram. I'll get to it as soon as...oh wait.

Maybe after Christmas?

Anna is working late, so tonight after I get the girls fed/bed I'll have some time to set this up and post a couple of pictures that are easier to see. And I'll try to answer any of the questions about what is in the photos. I'm sure it's all pretty ordinary, this one got re-wired a couple years ago from bow to tail-rotor.

Thanks for all the good stuff to ruminate on.
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BrentB



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck

Use existing outlets for now. Later move or add more
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BrentB



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob and I have been emailing about the location Bob and Marie see nothing wrong and they have a lot of experience. Use it!

The pic with the yellow fuse holder could be removed.
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