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Great American loop preparation advice
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 17542
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It seems “Dr. bob” from Thataway doesn’t like to seat things with 3M 5200 and likes Boatlife “Lifeseal” better (Both urethanes though).
Maybe Dr. Bob ought to put a "Complete guide to C-dory maintenance and upgrades" book - I would buy it for sure!


I may have not been clear: The Boat Life Life Seal, is a hybrid urethane/special silicone which is good to use for plastics. This is where I advocate life seal. I use 5200, 4200 and 4000 on a regular basis. It depends on how "permanent" I want the installation to be. Yes, 5200 can can be removed. But it can be very adherent--and I have accidentally damaged some fiberglass, ever with Debond agent.

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
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Micahbigsur@msn.com



Joined: 27 May 2019
Posts: 463
City/Region: Big Sur
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sierra
Photos: Sierra
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent, very clear, and so much simpler and better said than in my post. I would invite anyone interested in sorting out the property's of marine caulks to look through the archived testing articles in Practical Sailor they are also very clear and full of long term performance charts.

I'm glad too see you are up and about online, if I may ask how is your new water heater working out?

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Micah Curtis and Dana, RN
2003 C-dory 25 Sierra, 200, 9.9 and 2.5 Suzukis
2012 R25 SC Sequoia (2015-2018)
1978 Folkes 38 SV Audacious (2006-2015)
Micah, KJ6GUF, Dana, KJ6GXG
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sebastien



Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 47
City/Region: philadelphia
State or Province: PA
C-Dory Year: 2000
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Pompano
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Bob from Thataway and micah from Sierra.

I think this is much clearer to me now. This is what I understand:

3M 5200 is the strongest, and takes a while to set.
3M 4200 is second strongest and sets faster.
3M 4000 is third strongest and sets really fast.
all are paintable urethanes..
all may have negative interactions with certain plastics around the boat.

Boat life Sealife is a hybrid urethane and silicon. It is safer on other plastic materials around the boat.
It is more easily removable without damaging gelcoat but is not paintable (because of the silicone)

I’ve heard great things about INCOM butyl caulking tape for sealing deck hardware.
I like the idea of having a roll around instead of a tube of caulk for emergencies (specially on a tiny boat where space for tools and supplies will be highly limited.
but it sounds like butyl doesn't do much as an adhesive.

please do correct me if I am wrong. thanks

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Micahbigsur@msn.com



Joined: 27 May 2019
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City/Region: Big Sur
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C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes that is all correct in addition are the UV resistant versions that have slightly different property's along with the the fast cure versions that can be very different. (Usually less bonding)
Different applications:
Sealants
Bonding
Bedding
All have a different balance in use,.
For example the butyl tapes are weak for bonding fair at sealing good at bedding (distributing load and filling voids) And exelent for ease of use.
So you have to weigh the balance for each use.
It is complicated and confusing sometimes, I reread the property's for any important project before I get into it.
I hope this is somewhat clear and helpful.
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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 2000
City/Region: Leesburg
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The directions say that 5200 can take up to a week to cure. High temps and high humidity speed that up.
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captainRCC



Joined: 12 Sep 2019
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sebastien wrote:
Thank you so much for your help Pat, I remember looking at your blog quite a long time ago when I was still narrowing my boat choices and it got lost in the shuffle of great resources.
I will look through it again now that I am a C-dory owner.

I was planning on using the older GPS that came with the boat as mostly a backup and using an iPad with Navionics and of course the latest edition of skipper bob’s guides but now I will investigate Aquamap with active captain as another option.


Active Captain and Waterway Guide navalert monitored by Bob423
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 10562
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sebastien, I just got back from 40 days on my 22 Cruiser, and yes it was in the PNW so sometimes we have deep water here, like 500 to 1,500 feet, BUT you don't anchor in that. I like 5 to 20 feet.

If I may go back to your anchoring questions and decision. I have used a Delta (plow) but switched to a Rocna 6 (13#) (Spade with a hoop) a few years ago. I also have 73 feet of chain, and 150 ft of 1/2" nylon 3ply.

A bit of a physics lesson.
1. The Delta is a PLOW, it is designed to lift and move the opposing substrate to the side so that it can slide through -- Think plowing a field, leaving a furrow. The Rocna is a scoop or spade. It functions by drawing the substrate from the sides toward the center, compacting it and increasing the resistance to forward movement.
2. The chain adds weight, holding the anchor shaft down, parallel to the sea floor. As the boat pulls against the restriction of the anchor, it lifts some of the weight of the chain. Whatever causes the boat to pull against the resistance -- wind wave, or the engine in reverse in the anchor setting process, raises the chain until the pull is relaxed, then the chain weight settles the chain back to the sea floor. That process eliminates the shock load on the windlass and anchor cleat on the bow.

Your choice to go with a 30 pound anchor is a bit overkill, IMHO. I applaud your choice to go up in size, however, you are adding considerable extra bow weight, requiring a stronger back or a bigger windlass, and extra backing on the ground tackle handling devices. In the last 5 years with the Rocna, I have never had it drag. I always try and anchor where I will have about 5 feet of water under me at low tide, and I run out 70 feet of chain. Also, I almost never go out on the foredeck, maybe 3 or 4 times in the last 5 years, because I single hand 98% of the time. Those were very unusual circumstances. With a windlass, it is possible to anchor and retrieve same from the helm, wash the anchor prior to parking it in the launcher all from the helm seat. And yes, the chain goes into the chain locker wet, but it is clean and dries there before the next anchoring.

As to chain length, I'm not saying you need 100 feet, or 70, but I would go with at least double your boat length. That will give you the catenary or slack due to the chain weight. Then, since you are going to be in generally shallow waters you will be fine for moderate weather. If you get into a blow and want more scope you can let out past the chain and take advantage of the nylon stretch for extreme shock relief.

Also, I saw your response to GulfCoast John and his thoughts on doing the loop in segments, by trailering. I enjoyed his reasoning, And Chuck (Two Bears), because I too have thought there are parts of the GL I would love to see, yet I have no desire to spend days on end running in a ditch to get from A - B. I guess for me, that is why I have a trailer boat. To each his own, just use and enjoy.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon


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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 2000
City/Region: Leesburg
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SoBELLE
Photos: SoBelle
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hardee wrote:
...With a windlass, it is possible to anchor and retrieve same from the helm, wash the anchor prior to parking it in the launcher all from the helm seat. And yes, the chain goes into the chain locker wet, but it is clean and dries there before the next anchoring....


How do you wash the anchor remotely?
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 7181
City/Region: Tropical Tip of Texas
State or Province: TX
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssobol wrote:
hardee wrote:
...With a windlass, it is possible to anchor and retrieve same from the helm, wash the anchor prior to parking it in the launcher all from the helm seat. And yes, the chain goes into the chain locker wet, but it is clean and dries there before the next anchoring....


How do you wash the anchor remotely?


This may not be the "approved" method, but our technique: if the anchor comes up with mud or muck on it, lower it again with the windlass until it is just under the surface, move forward at just making weigh speed, and run the windlass up and down as needed.
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DavidM



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
Posts: 195
City/Region: Punta Gorda
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JamesTXSD wrote:
ssobol wrote:
hardee wrote:
...With a windlass, it is possible to anchor and retrieve same from the helm, wash the anchor prior to parking it in the launcher all from the helm seat. And yes, the chain goes into the chain locker wet, but it is clean and dries there before the next anchoring....


How do you wash the anchor remotely?


This may not be the "approved" method, but our technique: if the anchor comes up with mud or muck on it, lower it again with the windlass until it is just under the surface, move forward at just making weigh speed, and run the windlass up and down as needed.


This technique works well if the muck is only on the anchor or the last few feet of chain. Wat happens if it is thick, greasy mud all along the anchor chain?

David
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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City/Region: Sequim
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C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JamesTXSD wrote:
ssobol wrote:
hardee wrote:
...With a windlass, it is possible to anchor and retrieve same from the helm, wash the anchor prior to parking it in the launcher all from the helm seat. And yes, the chain goes into the chain locker wet, but it is clean and dries there before the next anchoring....


How do you wash the anchor remotely?


This may not be the "approved" method, but our technique: if the anchor comes up with mud or muck on it, lower it again with the windlass until it is just under the surface, move forward at just making weigh speed, and run the windlass up and down as needed.


Jim's way would work, but I do the reverse -- sort of. I will lower the anchor until it is just below the surface, then making sure I have room aft, I will then, reverse both engines, at more than just make way speed, bumping up to mid throttle for a few seconds then back to idle. Doing that a couple of times. It puts the anchor in a fair dose of prop wash and usually only takes a couple of "bumps", then run the anchor back up with the windlass, and see if it is clean. If not, do like the shampoo bottle says, wash rinse and repeat.

Reversing keeps the anchor away from the gel coat.

If the chain is coming up muddy, I will let it back down, and then "wobble" the bow back and forth using the twin OB's in one forward, one reverse to swing the chain side to side. (try doing that with a single OB Embarassed -- that's on another thread Embarassed

Hope that helps.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

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ssobol



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
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City/Region: Leesburg
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C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do those things too. Doesn't get the mud from the bottom of the Chesapeake off very well.. Usually end up with a mud colored front deck if we anchor out in some places. Better on the deck than in the anchor locker though.

I thought there was some device that actually washed the rode like a raw water sprayer or something.
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hardee



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 10562
City/Region: Sequim
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C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
".... I thought there was some device that actually washed the rode like a raw water sprayer or something."

I have seen that on a Tomcat 255, (Dreamer - Roger and Janet), but not on any 22's that I know of.

I have seen it work on some pretty sticky mud, but it takes a few tries.

Harvey
SleepyCMoon

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Sea Wolf



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssobol wrote:
I do those things too. Doesn't get the mud from the bottom of the Chesapeake off very well.. Usually end up with a mud colored front deck if we anchor out in some places. Better on the deck than in the anchor locker though.

I thought there was some device that actually washed the rode like a raw water sprayer or something.


Bigger boats usually have a high pressure raw water system with an outlet, a hose, and a hand-squeeze operated nozzle on the fore deck along with a pair of foot operated up and down switches for the windlass. These together allow one to raise the rode and anchor intermittently as they are washed off and put away. Nice work if you can get it! Wink

Check this out:

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-pty-pty_news&hsimp=yhs-pty_news&hspart=pty&p=raising+and+washing+down+the+anchor+and+rode+video#id=1&vid=095a6b17cf83c2217a2032f6ff4904a7&action=click

Joe. Teeth Thumbs Down

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Micahbigsur@msn.com



Joined: 27 May 2019
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had the anchor washdown on our sailboat, we gave all of that up for our C-dory. We are exploring a whole new world and as a result we are having so much fun. Dana is our official chain and anchor washer. (Long handled deck brush) she is worth her weight in gold.
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