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Changing Battery Location on my tomcat 255
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ChapaRRal Cock



Joined: 22 May 2019
Posts: 15
City/Region: Port Orchard
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Knotty Lady
Photos: Knotty Lady
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:33 pm    Post subject: Changing Battery Location on my tomcat 255 Reply with quote

I am a Happy new owner of a 2009 tomcat. The Layout and Install of some of the Niceties has me scratching my head. Admittedly this is my first boat of this caliber. My previous being an 86 trophy. I spent this last weekend in Westport salmon and bottom fishing. Was EXTREMELY happy with fuel consumption and handling. Not so happy with my scuppers living underwater and no bait well. This particular boat is outfitted with 2 lifeline GPL 2271 start batteries at 62lbs each and 4 GPL6CT 6 volt house batteries at 90 lbs each Shocked 484lbs of batteries in the back of the boat. My question is this going through albums of different tomcat owners I noticed rogerbum in his album seadna accessed a area under the captains helm.. I am thinking of relocating my batteries to this location.. I would REALLY appreciate any and all thoughts..
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James Speidel
Proud New Owner of the Knotty Lady
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DavidM



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
Posts: 182
City/Region: Punta Gorda
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you can save some weight at the loss of redundancy and house capacity just by reducing the number of batteries.

You can rewire so that one start battery handles both motors. Also 4 GC batteries is a bit heavy unless you have heavy loads while the engine insn't running. You can probably do with just two.

That change will drop about 240 lbs. You might want to see about how you could start your motor with the house batteries in a pinch given no start redundancy.

David
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Gene Morris



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 384
City/Region: Eureka CA
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Reef Madness
Photos: Reefmadness
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James;

All the TC255 have this problem. Move the batteries into the house which requires sealed batteries.
Under the helm seat poses the problem of access. The water heater is there and difficult to access when needed. Another issue with mounting at helm seat is weight distribution The freshwater tank is on the starboard side as well as the head. any addition of weight should be port if at all possible. My start batteries are in the refrigerator compartment. Easy to access and closer to battery charger. My house batteries are in the hanging locker also closer to charger and inverter. Some storage space is lost but you can build a box to cover the house batteries just leave room for venting.

Good luck your scuppers are still going to be low but, this helps a little.

Gene

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Pacificcoast101



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 458
City/Region: Torrance
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: No Pressure
Photos: No Pressure
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't recall seeing a Tomcat without a baitwell. All the ones I've seen, including mine, have the baitwell under the bench.

I have two starter batteries and one house battery at the stern and haven't had any issues with the scuppers unless I have four divers with eight scuba tanks at the stern at the same time.

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Phil Garner
2008 Tomcat 255
No Pressure




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ChapaRRal Cock



Joined: 22 May 2019
Posts: 15
City/Region: Port Orchard
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Knotty Lady
Photos: Knotty Lady
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was under the impression that the water tank was under the fridge on the port side? As it is set up right now both batteries feed both motors I pick dependent upon my selector switch. I was thinking about cutting a hole in the floor and putting the batteries in the sponson? I think that is what its called.
once again appreciate all the nautical and practical experience.
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ChapaRRal Cock



Joined: 22 May 2019
Posts: 15
City/Region: Port Orchard
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Knotty Lady
Photos: Knotty Lady
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't recall seeing a Tomcat without a baitwell. All the ones I've seen, including mine, have the baitwell under the bench..

Mine was removed and that is where my plethora of batteries reside.
My hot water heater is under the sleeping berth port side and the expansion tank is mounted in the hanging locker.
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Gene Morris



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 384
City/Region: Eureka CA
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Reef Madness
Photos: Reefmadness
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They might have changed the location of the water tank. To be sure, there is access under the sink, open the hatch and shine light forward you will see the tank and lines running to demand pump if not it has changed.
The design of my 2007 model lists starboard when all tanks are full. Much less since I repositioned all batteries to the port side.

My water heater is located in the cabinet under the helm seat with no expansion tank in system. The only expansion tank on my 2007 is the one for the hydronic heating system that I installed.

Gene
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 17367
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The water tank can be under either the port or starboard side. I had ordered with two water tanks--and during the build they informed me they would not put it under the port side-(I suspect that they had already put in the dinette furniture and forgot to flag the boat with a special order. I finally got the extra tank--but never installed it. It should still be with the boat...

I put AGM batteries under the port side since my water tank was under Starboard.

But, I would not put the battery down in the hulls.

My boat (2007) was ordered without the bait well option (under the aft bench seat--not sure if the factory still has the molds for that bait well--it they do, you could order it, and drop it in place (with fiberglass). But the 30 gallons of water would weigh 180#...

AGM batteries can be put on their sides or ends--but not upside down. You want to have access to the terminals for maintenance.

I probably would keep two group 24 starting batteries aft, and get rid of the golf carts--(Although you can get AGM golf carts), and go with two group 31 house batteries for the "house". I had a second set of 2 group 31's for the inverter, running microwave--plus I had both a chest freezer / refrigerator in the main cabin (no small front opening refrigerator) and a chest freezer / refrigerator in the cockpit--so had a bit more house demand than the average boat.

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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
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ChapaRRal Cock



Joined: 22 May 2019
Posts: 15
City/Region: Port Orchard
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Knotty Lady
Photos: Knotty Lady
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, Bob, you were the one I was hoping would chime in. I have gone through your albums and realized you have done some electrical upgrading.
Why would you not put the batteries in the Hulls? I was going to build a platform and epoxy it to the hull to raise the batteries up and to be able to secure them. rogerbum on SEADNA cut an access hatch thru the floor in front of the captains helm that is where I was going to access and it would offset the water weight from my freshwater tank.
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ChapaRRal Cock



Joined: 22 May 2019
Posts: 15
City/Region: Port Orchard
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Knotty Lady
Photos: Knotty Lady
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And my 6volt golf cart batteries are lifeline agm batteries. Its just a lot of battery power
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 17367
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChapaRRal Cock wrote:
Honestly, Bob, you were the one I was hoping would chime in. I have gone through your albums and realized you have done some electrical upgrading.
Why would you not put the batteries in the Hulls? I was going to build a platform and epoxy it to the hull to raise the batteries up and to be able to secure them. rogerbum on SEADNA cut an access hatch thru the floor in front of the captains helm that is where I was going to access and it would offset the water weight from my freshwater tank.


My apology, I missinterpreted in the your first post, that you were considering forward under helm foot rest area. I was going on your post:
Quote:
. I was thinking about cutting a hole in the floor and putting the batteries in the sponson? I think that is what its called.

If you want to put the Lifeline 300 amp hour AGM batteries, up forward, --say under the helm area--that would be fine, if built up on a platform. The reason I suggested against it, was if they were to be put aft, there is an issue with getting the bilge completely dry with the Tom Cat. Not only water itself, but the high humidity in the hulls, tend to accelerate corrosion. If you are willing to inspect the batteries regularly, that would work. Unfortunately the Tom Cat tends to have a lot of weight in the stern--and that also affects performance. You don't want to get weight too far forward. These four batteries are 360#. How this affects the trim of your boat will depend on where other heavy items are located. In my boat the water tank was on Starboard, and I put the batteries amidships back in the cabinets.

Not sure how you were going to epoxy a platform to the hull, but here is what I did for the Lithium ion batteries I put under the aft end of the port side of V berth.
I cut out the plywood, and epoxied "cleats" around the edge which would not be against the hull or bulkhead. I then coated the entire platform with epoxy. Before putting in the boat--any "legs" going to the hull were cut from cardboard patterns I had made. They were also attached with epoxy to the plywood platform. Any area which would be in contact with the hull, and area where I would be putting 3" fiberglass tape, was cleaned of any amine blush and sanded lightly. I sanded the hull, and any painted wooden bulkhead, to give a good surface to epoxy to. I overlapped the glass tape equally over the platform, and the hull surface. I made a small fillet with thickened epoxy to give some radius and avoid a sharp transition at the joint. of the platform and hull.

Incidentally those Lifeline AGM are not the standard Golf Cart--they are over twice as expensive--and worth keeping. (Again, I didn't look up the specific battery, my error). These are 50% more capacity than the standard (about 205 amp hours) GG. Also weight is about 30# more. 30 gallons of water is going to weight about 180#. So be careful with trim...
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ChapaRRal Cock



Joined: 22 May 2019
Posts: 15
City/Region: Port Orchard
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Knotty Lady
Photos: Knotty Lady
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate the follow-up. Would you consider dropping to a single start battery? I have the ability to hit a switch and combine house and start batteries to start. Honestly not sure where the batteries are going. I just know I need to move them forward. If I can keep them all one side will keep installing much simpler. The nice thing is I have wiring layout for the complete boat. If you have any other thoughts please don't hesitate to say something. Thanks for the insights and help. James
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 17367
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have always had two start batteries, when I had dual engines--inboards or outboards. On my long distance motor sailors, I had two start batteries, for the single Diesel engine. The reason being, I had by house batteries some distance from the engine--and I always wanted reliable start--alternated use each day running. Although golf carts are not designed as starting batteries--the ones you own should start most outboards in the size used on the Tom. Cat.

I don't know how the boat is wired--or why they put that high a battery capacity aboard--300 amp hours usable, is a lot of power. If you move them forward, you will want to have adequate cable for charging (I don't know if the standard cable to the console has been upgraded or not.

We also don't know what engines you have= what the charging capacity is. Does each engine have a split charging circuit (second circuit), do you have ACR's (Automatic Charge Relay). Also the house battery charger should be matched to the size of the battery bank. A 10/5/5 guest is going to be way under performing for that battery bank. Is there an inverter/charger--if so what size?
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ChapaRRal Cock



Joined: 22 May 2019
Posts: 15
City/Region: Port Orchard
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Knotty Lady
Photos: Knotty Lady
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have dual honda 150's counter-rotating.

The original owner of the boat was an electrical engineer and specified changes he wanted along with new wiring schematics which I have. Looking at the owners manuals I have a
mastervolt IVO Smart Battery charger 12/50-3
Along with a mastervolt Inverter12/200 with the Mastervolt masterlink inverter charger control. If I move the batteries forward I can actually use the same cable just run forward instead of aft. Yes I have ACR's. I have a spool of 2/0 Marine wire red and black laying around I was going to use if needed. I figure bigger is better. I am not going to overheat wires
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DavidM



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
Posts: 182
City/Region: Punta Gorda
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you go with a single start battery, you probably will have to do a bit of wiring so that one battery can start both engines. With two starting batteries, they typically start and charge one engine each.

With the switch you describe where your house can start the engines you won't lose much redundancy with a single start battery. As noted above a pair of GCs can start most outboards. Try it.

Then reduce your house batteries to a pair of GCs or G31s. But you need to evaluate how much load you have without the engines running. The PO installed those 4 GCs for a reason, but maybe he wanted the ability to hang out at anchor for several days at a time and you don't need that.

David
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