The C-Brats Forum Index
HomeForumsMy TopicsCalendarEvent SignupsMemberlistOur C-DorysThe Brat MapPhotos

Chart Plotter / Auto Pilot
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> Electronics
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
cgypsy



Joined: 02 Mar 2015
Posts: 175
City/Region: Vancouver Island
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C Gypsy
Photos: C Gypsy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:15 am    Post subject: Chart Plotter / Auto Pilot Reply with quote

I am looking for a Chart Plotter. My Garmin Echomap 70s touch screen quit working after I did a recent recommended update. They have been discontinued and Garmin says it is not not fixable because they don't have any parts for it and they can't undo an update. I bought it in 2015. Yes, I have talked to Garmin - I have a long string of emails and I am very disappointed with their lack of support for such an expensive item with such a short life span.

I have read similar threads from a few years ago, but electronics change so quickly that it would be nice to have current information.

So, now I need a new Chartplotter/Depth Sounder. I am also considering getting an autopilot some time in the future and I assume it would be best to buy both from the same company.

Navionics+ charts now have autorouting and this is a feature that I use all the time and really want. Garmin also has autorouting if you purchase the "vision" charts, which I already have.

I would prefer to stay under $1 000 including charts and trnducer and I would like a minimum 7" screen.

I am currently looking at:

https://buy.garmin.com/en-CA/CA/p/592867/pn/010-01892-00#

https://www.harbourchandler.ca/shop/electronics-and-navigation/lowrance/accessories-lowrance/lowrance-outboard-hydraulic-pack/

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Gypsy

_________________
Gypsy

Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it is about learning to dance in the rain.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 16944
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So, now I need a new Chartplotter/Depth Sounder. I am also considering getting an autopilot some time in the future and I assume it would be best to buy both from the same company.

Navionics+ charts now have autorouting and this is a feature that I use all the time and really want. Garmin also has autorouting if you purchase the "vision" charts, which I already have.

I would prefer to stay under $1 000 including charts and trnducer and I would like a minimum 7" screen.


First, it would definitely buy the same brand of auto pilot and MDF (chart plotter/depth sounder). You show the Lowrance auto pilot and Garmin MDF.

The auto pilot and and MDF have to communicate via MNEA 2000. Theoretically this should work across brands---and it does to some extent... But not 100%.

Also now you are back to .... Garmin--both navionics and the MDF. The Garmin auto pilot is excellent....and expensive.

Other options would be go to a Lowrance MDF (HDS Gen2 and HDS Gen3 units are described as comparable with the auto pilot you describe.) You need the MDF head to control that pilot. I suspect the Garmin will not work well as the head or auto routing for that pilot.

The pilot is available for less than 1K from Lowrance. You can add one of the MDF displays for less than another 1K. I would take advantage of the newest Depth sounder technology : Down scan, side scan, CHIRP etc. The Lowrance "Carbon 9" has all of the transducers etc for less than 1K. It comes with C maps, but can use the Navionics charts also.

The other way to go is Ray Marine. They have recently had the 9" MDF with "real Vision"--computer generated image combining the down scan and side scan, plus they have/use Navionics Map-for about $800. Their auto pilot plays well with the Raymarine Display. For the 22 the RayMarine EV-100 Power Evolution Autopilot currently is $1200, including a display "head" unit. It uses the same pump I have on my 25--which is "Adequate". A 25 probably does better with the 150,with the slightly larger pump--but mine has the basic 1000 system--similar (not as good as) to the EV 100.

All of these systems have excellent small boat digital radars--and the fish finder/depth sounders are all excellent. Garmin is the only one restrictive to their own charts.

I believe that Garmin is the easiest to learn and operate. But all have about the same features.

_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
BrentB



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 4290
City/Region: Greenwood
State or Province: IN
Photos: BrentB
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you try a Master reset?


Start with the device powered off

Press the Power button to turn the device on

As soon as Garmin appears, release the power button

Immediately press and hold your finger on the Top-Left Corner
of the display

Continue to hold your finger in the Top-Left corner until "Delete all user settings?" appears

Release the buttons

Press Yes


or may need to remove the power cable from unit for several mnutes

then re attach

them Master reset as above

_________________
Brent Barrett
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cgypsy



Joined: 02 Mar 2015
Posts: 175
City/Region: Vancouver Island
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C Gypsy
Photos: C Gypsy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Start with the device powered off

Press the Power button to turn the device on

As soon as Garmin appears, release the power button

Immediately press and hold your finger on the Top-Left Corner
of the display

Continue to hold your finger in the Top-Left corner until "Delete all user settings?" appears

Release the buttons


I haven't tried what you described, but I have been following the instructions from Garmin Support. I will try your master reset and hope for the best. Thank you so much for the instructions.

My plotter has only a touch screen with no buttons anywhere and because the touch screen won't work, I can't make anything else work.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BrentB



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 4290
City/Region: Greenwood
State or Province: IN
Photos: BrentB
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok maybe I have the wrong model. I thought there was a power button on upper right side
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cgypsy



Joined: 02 Mar 2015
Posts: 175
City/Region: Vancouver Island
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C Gypsy
Photos: C Gypsy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I thought there was a power button on upper right side


Yes, there is a power button on the top right corner, but it is the only button. I meant there weren't any function buttons.

I will try the reset. That would be great if it worked.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Peter & Judy



Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 175
City/Region: Olds
State or Province: AB
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Mistaya
Photos: Mistaya
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our 2005 Cruiser still has its original Raymarine C80 chart plotter, radar and autopilot unit. The chart plotter is getting dated and unreliable. Some days it decides that we are somewhere else on the planet, like Alaska or the Bahamas, when my other backup instruments tell me that I am in Desolation Sound or Lake Powell. The depth sounder likes to tell me that I am often in less than 20 feet of water, when I am really in 500 or 1000 feet of water. So I realize that I am coming to the day that I need to upgrade. The problem is to what system. My radar still works great, I can check charts on my iPad or my Garmin handheld GPS. My Raymarine Auto Pilot also works well so long as I use it in a 'point and go' mode and do not try to integrate it with waypoints on the chart plotter. I find the less I play with the plotter, the less problems I have with it.

My problem now is that to change the chart plotter, I need to consider that my old analog radar dome will not work with a new digital chart plotter, and my auto pilot controller may not work with another brand of plotter and might not even work with a newer Raymarine. I need to talk directly with one of Raymarine's technical experts to determine compatibility before I install a new system that is going to cost me more than $5,000. I don't want to rush this decision.

What to do in the meantime as I make plans for my cruising in September. The solution is to rely mostly on the iPad as a chart plotter in case the old unit gives up the ghost. The radar is nice to have and has not given me any problems, so I'm not to worried about that. The depth finder concerns me most. When I am in deep water, I am not concerned, but when I am in shallow water I want that information. Am I going to hit bottom and how deep is the water before I drop the anchor is very important to know.

My long term solution will be a full new set of electronics. But for this season and maybe next I need to consider a short term solution. I will be boating off Vancouver island for a few weeks this fall and I may not be on salt water next year. So I have decided that for navigation to get a Navionics subscription on my iPad and I am buying a small Garmin Stricker 4plus fish finder and depth sounder for less than $200. I plan to keep this depth sounder on the boat for future backup even when I get a new electronics system. I have good backup on charts and GPS, but no backup on depth.

I am sorry to hear that your newer system failed on you and it seems that nothing last as well today as things did in the past. Also it seems that electronics are changing so fast that the companies making and selling them consider them disposable after only a few years. I am sure that you will love the autopilot system as it makes the boat so much more comfortable and fun to drive.

_________________
Peter & Judy Haase
Buffalo Horn Ranch

HMCB Mistaya
"Mistaya" (Grizzly Bear in Cree)
HMCB (Her Majesties Cute Boat)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 16944
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter, I don't know which auto pilot you have, but the S1000 works fine with the newer chart plotters from Ray Marine--I am not sure about the radar, but it may also. I would keep the functioning radar / MDF, and then move to what you desire. The Ray Marine is very good, but I am used to Garmin and find the Ray Marine not quite as intuitive....but digging thru the 300 page manuals, you can get all functions to work--also a good Ray Marine forum.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Peter & Judy



Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 175
City/Region: Olds
State or Province: AB
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Mistaya
Photos: Mistaya
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Peter, I don't know which auto pilot you have, but the S1000 works fine with the newer chart plotters from Ray Marine--I am not sure about the radar, but it may also. I would keep the functioning radar / MDF, and then move to what you desire. The Ray Marine is very good, but I am used to Garmin and find the Ray Marine not quite as intuitive....but digging thru the 300 page manuals, you can get all functions to work--also a good Ray Marine forum.


I am leaning towards the Raymarine, based on the research I have done on the internet and I hope that I will be able to integrate the some of the older elements of my system together with the newer units. I do like the Garmin systems and these might be my second choice. But first I need to map out the old system and have a Raymarine technician look it over and ensure that I have a new comparable system that is functional and cost effective for the next decade if possible.

It seems to me that I would have a higher likelihood of having old and new Raymarine components being compatible with each other than adding a new element like Garmin to the mix.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
colbysmith



Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 2614
City/Region: Madison
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Midnight Flyer
Photos: Midnight Flyer
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding Ray Marina vs. Garmin. They don't play well together. I have always had Garmin. Mostly because when I upgrade I don't want to have to change all my previous knowledge/familiarity with Garmin, or all my saved routes and waypoints and software that I've used over the decades. (I've also had good customer service from Garmin). I did purchase the cheap Ray Marine autopilot system a while back, and pretty much got less than I paid for. Along with using different network components and having to add adapters between the two products, the AP itself was pretty much useless in any kind of wind or chop, especially at slower trolling or displacement speeds. I finally upgraded to the Garmin Reactor autopilot last year, with their smart pump. After using it for over 1500 miles and 300 hours of displacement speeds on my Inside Passage trip the past several months, and a trip last week to salmon troll in Lake Michigan, I decided the Garmin AP was worth the price! And it played well with my garmin chart plotter. As for radar, with my last upgrade in electonics and not wanting to have several large displays at the helm, I finally gave up my Ray Marine Path Finder B&W Radar for one of the newer color units. I don't think the newer unit works as well as the old B&W, but that may be due more to operator technique than anything... Bottom line, I'd highly recommend finding one manufacturer you like, and just stick with that one for all electronics. It'll be much easier to run the network and with each unit communicating with the other. Also, FWIW, Ray Marine uses it's own network components, known as SeaTalk, and there are even different versions within, whereas all the other manufacturers seem to use the same basic network wires and connectors. Colby
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kaelc



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 138
City/Region: Saanich
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Island Majic
Photos: Stil-Afloat
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a similar failing with an older Garmin Sad

We have Lowrance HDS Gen 3 and Gen 2 with Autopilot and Dock to Dock AutoRouting. Dock to Dock auto-routing is an interesting feature but a little complex to use and setup. I would really like a tutorial and a page cheat sheet on how to use it.

Budget $300 for new charts as Dock to Dock will only work with updated Navionics. Harbour Chandler has some amazing sales. I'm waiting for Black Friday before upgrading my head unit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Da Nag



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 2758
City/Region: Port Angeles
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: Taco
Photos: Da Boats
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've not worked with the Garmin integrated units, and my last experience with Raymarine was pretty old tech - C80 era.

Not mentioned so far is Simrad. Yes, same manufacturer as Lowrance - but you might take a peek at the NSS series. I've found the chartplotter/AP/4G functions to be superb, and Simrad tech support has been top notch when needed. They use Navionics and have autorouting with the latest firmware, and if you get their wifi modules integrated into the system - they link up nicely with portable devices.

RE mixing manufacturers - as others have mentioned above, compatibility can be a concern. However, for me - if starting from scratch, I'd avoid mixing manufacturers for a much simpler reason. When you do encounter an issue - and with these systems you will, it's just a matter of time - the last thing you want is finger pointing between brands. If everything comes from one manufacturer, it's one phone call with no doubt about who is responsible for resolution of any issue.

_________________
Tux Will, C-Brat Nerd Tux
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
cgypsy



Joined: 02 Mar 2015
Posts: 175
City/Region: Vancouver Island
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C Gypsy
Photos: C Gypsy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you everyone for so much insight. I totally agree about not wanting to mix manufacturers. If I choose the Garmin Chartplotter, I know I will need to get a Garmin autopilot. If I choose the Ray Marine or Lawrance autopilot for future upgrade, I will get a Ray Marine or Lawrance chart plotter.

I just need to choose carefully to make sure I actually have money left over to run the boat after I pay for all the repairs and upgrades that I have had to do this year.

But, I am not willing to go out without a depth sounder and unfortunately with these expensive units if one component goes you have to buy a whole new unit.

I am happy to use Navionics on my tablet, but I still need a good and reliable sonar.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 16944
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For $150 you can get " Wifish," from RayMarine--which is a wiFi fish finder, and do all of the navigation from a smart device. Not sure if you can split the screen, or have to use a second device. There are some really cheap android 9" or so units. Also all manufactures have an entry level depth finder. I have a Lowrance 4" on my 18' Caracal cat. Works fine for the limited fishing use I do--but someday, I'll up grade.

The RayMarine Dragon Fly was also an inexpensive unit at one time--I believe they are now discontinued, but some online stores may still have them. Some include a chart plotter for a few more dollars.

Lowrance has the "hook" series, 4" start at $104 on to $229--with transducer.

Garmin has the "striker" at $110. None of these will network--true with most in-expensive depth finders. But going up one or two levels, the units will network, and do well...

Also watch local West Marine stock sales--recently our local store had a Axiom 9" real vision with Lighthouse 3, for about $800. I would have picked one up--but don't have room for the monitor.

A year ago, I got Axiom Radar, Down vision, side vision, latest Navionics charts and the 7" hybrid MDF(Touch is OK for calm conditions, but for rough, I like the knobs and buttons), for about $1500 on one of the sales. It interfaces well with the 9" which was already on the boat, as well as the auto pilot via the NMEA 2000/Sea Talk.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
NORO LIM



Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 650
City/Region: Olympia
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: NORO LIM (sold 12/12/14)
Photos: NORO LIM
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
. . .(Touch is OK for calm conditions, but for rough, I like the knobs and buttons) . . .


I second that. I can't imagine trying to use a touch screen while bouncing through confused seas with steep 3-footers slapping the boat from every direction. You want to be able to grip something solid and keep just one digit free to control switches, buttons, knobs or roller balls. Trying to hit the right spot on the screen when it's hard to stay in your seat will really challenge you.

_________________
Bill, Formerly on NORO LIM
2001 CD 16, 2001-2006
2006 CC 23, 2006-2014
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> Electronics All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
     Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Page generation time: 0.0951s (PHP: 80% - SQL: 20%) - SQL queries: 32 - GZIP disabled - Debug on